1970 383 in 1969 Charger Not Running Right

[vsj100]

I don’t have another carb, but maybe a friend might. If I can get access to one and try this I’ll let you know. Good idea!

Amazon to the rescue https://www.amazon.com/BRAWLER-CARB...072173&sprefix=holley+650+carb,aps,273&sr=8-4

 

[vsj100]

The propane will do the same thing as spraying ether or starting fluid all over the place. Safer and less of a mess.

The idea of the pressurized gas like propane is a good one. It's done by starting the engine and then blowing unlit gas anywhere there might be a vacuum leak. The idle will rise if the gas is sucked in.

 

[dadsbee]

We made sure that the top butterfly stayed open by sticking a screwdriver down there. Once that's done there is no air restriction. The electrical contact can remain in place.

You're missing the point and also not the OP that that message was directed at! Electric chokes eat power.. and in my case made the ECU die...

 

[1STMP]

From your pic, I don't see a
Phenolic spacer under the
carb. Could be heating up
the fuel in the bowls once
the engine gets to temp.
Another item to check
would be the pick-up
screen in the fuel tank.
Could be clogging up with
gunk floating around at the
bottom of the tank.

 

[glrestomod]

From your pic, I don't see a
Phenolic spacer under the
carb. Could be heating up
the fuel in the bowls once
the engine gets to temp.
Another item to check
would be the pick-up
screen in the fuel tank.
Could be clogging up with
gunk floating around at the
bottom of the tank.

Thanks! Definitely will check that out!

 

[vsj100]

You're missing the point and also not the OP that that message was directed at! Electric chokes eat power.. and in my case made the ECU die...

You are correct. The choke should never get its power from the coil.

 

[dadsbee]

You are correct. The choke should never get its power from the coil.

When they become almost a dead short, it doesn't matter where you have them hook up !

 

[Road Grabber]

After reading through quickly it seems you have the same carb on the engine? Even if you changed the gas out the damage to the carb will have already been done. Get a good carb book, watch a few youtubes and rebuild the carb. Let it soak as well when rebuilding it.

I just removed a gas tank from my car last year. I have been using alcohol free gas and additives for years. You wouldn't believe the gas that came out. the stuff gets into the carb and clogs everything.

Fuel filters are cheap. replace if for now and get a clear plastic one you can see inside to see if junk is getting into the fuel system. If you changed the fuel the old fuel line could have contaminated the new fuel if the tarnish wore off. Bad rubber fuel lines can cause a lot of junk too to clog things up. This fuel today will eat away rubber fuel lines that connect steel fuel lines even. The previous suggestion to test with a separate fuel tank is good but be careful. The would rule out the tank and fuel lines.
If its a holley carb you can drop the bowl and see what's inside the carb if contamination. It will cost the price of a bowl gasket and new washers for the bowl.
If it's a Carter carb you can lift the top off and look inside for stuff floating around to clog jets and passage ways. You may not even damage the gasket. It doesn't take much to cause havoc.
If you are inexperienced better yet take the carb off and take pictures as you go. Cell phones are a great tool nowadays.

IS the carb correct for the engine?

Are you sure you installed the cam correctly? Sometimes crank timing gears have multiple marks that confuse people and directions given today suck.

If you have compression and you think the fuel has checked out then you most likely have an electrical problem.

If you have a vacuum leak you would most likely have a popping back from a lean condition. If you spray gumout along the intake runners while running it should effect the engine

Do you have electronic ignition or points? If you have electronic it can range from ECM not grounded, shorting distributor pickup....

Do you have a good blue spark? Pull a wire from the distributor cap and check for the spark jumping.

If you have a point system distributor and know how to wire it up you could rule out problems with the distributor and ECM if the existing system is electronic.

You more than likely have a crapped up carb from sitting 10 years....

That's enough for now.... lol

 

[jimt1971rr]

I haven’t seen anything about you checking the distributor cap for cracks or having replaced it.

 

[ftwkevin]

So many shotgun mechanics on here, just throw parts at it, and hope something fixes it ? Have you ever heard of diagnostics ? Have or do any of you do mechanic work professionally ? You can't just go buying parts and hope you fix it. This person seems to have very little knowledge of mechanics. Let's keep it simple, he said the plugs all looked the same, but didn't say how they looked, are they black ? No ? Why did you change them. Remove 1 plug wire at the distributor any wire, start the car, should run a lot worse, any difference ? No ? Something is wrong on that cylinder. Mark wire with tape, marker, or other method.Replace wire. Remove next wire in either direction, start car. Any difference ? ? Repeat procedure in same direction one at a time until all cylinders checked. Note results. Now you should have some facts to deal with. Takes no tools, no help, not much time. One other quick test you can do, remove air cleaner, make sure engine is warm enough for choke to be fully open. Start engine, cover carburetor partially with hand ? Does idle change ? Cover more, then less, what happens ? Cover carb completely with hand or close choke, engine should stall immediately ? Does it ? Report back, then maybe assistance can be given.

 

[glrestomod]

I haven’t seen anything about you checking the distributor cap for cracks or having replaced it.

Thanks for the reminder, I forgot to add that we did examine the distributor for cracks, etc. Also, the vacuum advance is working really well to.

 

[glrestomod]

After reading through quickly it seems you have the same carb on the engine? Even if you changed the gas out the damage to the carb will have already been done. Get a good carb book, watch a few youtubes and rebuild the carb. Let it soak as well when rebuilding it.

I just removed a gas tank from my car last year. I have been using alcohol free gas and additives for years. You wouldn't believe the gas that came out. the stuff gets into the carb and clogs everything.

Fuel filters are cheap. replace if for now and get a clear plastic one you can see inside to see if junk is getting into the fuel system. If you changed the fuel the old fuel line could have contaminated the new fuel if the tarnish wore off. Bad rubber fuel lines can cause a lot of junk too to clog things up. This fuel today will eat away rubber fuel lines that connect steel fuel lines even. The previous suggestion to test with a separate fuel tank is good but be careful. The would rule out the tank and fuel lines.
If its a holley carb you can drop the bowl and see what's inside the carb if contamination. It will cost the price of a bowl gasket and new washers for the bowl.
If it's a Carter carb you can lift the top off and look inside for stuff floating around to clog jets and passage ways. You may not even damage the gasket. It doesn't take much to cause havoc.
If you are inexperienced better yet take the carb off and take pictures as you go. Cell phones are a great tool nowadays.

IS the carb correct for the engine?

Are you sure you installed the cam correctly? Sometimes crank timing gears have multiple marks that confuse people and directions given today suck.

If you have compression and you think the fuel has checked out then you most likely have an electrical problem.

If you have a vacuum leak you would most likely have a popping back from a lean condition. If you spray gumout along the intake runners while running it should effect the engine

Do you have electronic ignition or points? If you have electronic it can range from ECM not grounded, shorting distributor pickup....

Do you have a good blue spark? Pull a wire from the distributor cap and check for the spark jumping.

If you have a point system distributor and know how to wire it up you could rule out problems with the distributor and ECM if the existing system is electronic.

You more than likely have a crapped up carb from sitting 10 years....

That's enough for now.... lol

Thanks! The carburetor is a Holley 600cfm. When one does the equation to get the correct carb size it comes out to 570cfm. The engine was rebuilt to stock specs (other than someone before us had it bored to 0.60 over) by a gentleman who has a great reputation in our area for engines. This was done in the early 2000’s.

I mentioned some of the things you asked about above, but not all in the same post (sorry!). It has the Mopar black box electronic ignition, the carburetor has already been rebuilt and then tuned by a local carb expert.

I’ve replaced all the fuel lines above the fuel pump to the carb, as well as the fuel filter. The fuel coming through to the engine is clean as can be.

I have yet to check for a compression test, but that’s on the “to do” list!

I appreciate the help!

 

[glrestomod]

So many shotgun mechanics on here, just throw parts at it, and hope something fixes it ? Have you ever heard of diagnostics ? Have or do any of you do mechanic work professionally ? You can't just go buying parts and hope you fix it. This person seems to have very little knowledge of mechanics. Let's keep it simple, he said the plugs all looked the same, but didn't say how they looked, are they black ? No ? Why did you change them. Remove 1 plug wire at the distributor any wire, start the car, should run a lot worse, any difference ? No ? Something is wrong on that cylinder. Mark wire with tape, marker, or other method.Replace wire. Remove next wire in either direction, start car. Any difference ? ? Repeat procedure in same direction one at a time until all cylinders checked. Note results. Now you should have some facts to deal with. Takes no tools, no help, not much time. One other quick test you can do, remove air cleaner, make sure engine is warm enough for choke to be fully open. Start engine, cover carburetor partially with hand ? Does idle change ? Cover more, then less, what happens ? Cover carb completely with hand or close choke, engine should stall immediately ? Does it ? Report back, then maybe assistance can be given.

Thanks, and you’re correct, I’m new to learning about the mechanical aspect of these vintage Mopars. I’m catching in very fast they tell me, but I have a LONG way to go, so I appreciate your help!

I’ll do those things as soon as I have a chance and report back. Thought I could do it this weekend but may be this coming week or the following weekend as I have to go out of town for family.

Once I know something I’ll report back for sure!

 

[Road Grabber]

After reading the posts I see that you mentioned something that is not correct.

You said when you put the wires back correctly on the cap it ran worse?
When the other cam was installed (stock)? A few things could have been wrong.
- take your number one plug out which is always the most frontal cylinder. That’s your front cylinder on the driver side.
- put the car in neutral and with the key NOT in the run position
- take a large screw driver at bypass the ignition switch or get someone to tap the starter WHILE you hold your thumb over the spark plug hole and wait until the compression just pushes off your thumb from compression.
-look at the rotor position under the distributor cap then check to see where the timing mark on the engine damper is
- take a 1-1/4 socket and rotate the timing mark on the damper to “zero” TDC
-look at the rotor position again and take a picture of it
-make sure it would be under #1 ignition wire or very close on the cap
-now remover the distributor and look down to the intermediate distributor gear slot for the rotor
- with the damper on TDC it should be parallel or directly facing the front

OTHER CHECK
-it may be possible that your damper has rotated and your ignition timing mark is off. Rare but it does happen
ALSO
- your cam and crank timing gears may not have installed properly when the other cam was installed
- if your driver valve cover was off you could watch the two valves close during the compression stroke

One other note:
This could be as simple as your jet size is too small. I had this problem for years and it drove me nuts on my 383. 600 CFM is a good start but it can be larger.

I would consider doing what the previous poster said. Cover the top slightly with your hand and see how the engine reacts.

Do the simple checks first before tearing things apart.

I don’t like how you can’t put the wires on the distributor cap in the right locations. Especially since it ran worse when you did. Either way that needs to be fixed.

Have at it. Hope the directions are clear enough. You will learn a lot by the time you get it running.

 

[Some Car Guy]

I didn’t read all this, don’t have time.

Stalling when hot but able to start back is a clue the ecu is losing ground. Problem is worse when temps underhood go up. Sand the mounting flange and firewall, or run dedicated ground to battery and be done with it. Ecu could also be bad or I wouldn’t trust it after a bunch of spells of this. I also don’t trust anything from MP, so if one of those I’d suspect it.

 

[glrestomod]

I didn’t read all this, don’t have time.

Stalling when hot but able to start back is a clue the ecu is losing ground. Problem is worse when temps underhood go up. Sand the mounting flange and firewall, or run dedicated ground to battery and be done with it. Ecu could also be bad or I wouldn’t trust it after a bunch of spells of this. I also don’t trust anything from MP, so if one of those I’d suspect it.

Thank you! I’ll definitely check this out! We had the MP orange boxes and went through three of them in the late 90’s. We got the black box and it’s worked since. It also is from the late 90’s. If I have to replace it what one do you recommend? I saw some from Mancini Racing that seemed good, but I’m open to whatever! Hopefully I don’t have to replace it, but definitely a possibility!

 

[glrestomod]

After reading the posts I see that you mentioned something that is not correct.

You said when you put the wires back correctly on the cap it ran worse?
When the other cam was installed (stock)? A few things could have been wrong.
- take your number one plug out which is always the most frontal cylinder. That’s your front cylinder on the driver side.
- put the car in neutral and with the key NOT in the run position
- take a large screw driver at bypass the ignition switch or get someone to tap the starter WHILE you hold your thumb over the spark plug hole and wait until the compression just pushes off your thumb from compression.
-look at the rotor position under the distributor cap then check to see where the timing mark on the engine damper is
- take a 1-1/4 socket and rotate the timing mark on the damper to “zero” TDC
-look at the rotor position again and take a picture of it
-make sure it would be under #1 ignition wire or very close on the cap
-now remover the distributor and look down to the intermediate distributor gear slot for the rotor
- with the damper on TDC it should be parallel or directly facing the front

OTHER CHECK
-it may be possible that your damper has rotated and your ignition timing mark is off. Rare but it does happen
ALSO
- your cam and crank timing gears may not have installed properly when the other cam was installed
- if your driver valve cover was off you could watch the two valves close during the compression stroke

One other note:
This could be as simple as your jet size is too small. I had this problem for years and it drove me nuts on my 383. 600 CFM is a good start but it can be larger.

I would consider doing what the previous poster said. Cover the top slightly with your hand and see how the engine reacts.

Do the simple checks first before tearing things apart.

I don’t like how you can’t put the wires on the distributor cap in the right locations. Especially since it ran worse when you did. Either way that needs to be fixed.

Have at it. Hope the directions are clear enough. You will learn a lot by the time you get it running.

Well, what I meant to say is that since we got the carb rebuilt, replaced some parts that needed replaced, etc. the more we do the worse it has ran: especially when it gets up to operating temp (160 degrees). It also gets very hot under the hood. It used to run really good before it sat for ten years. We just always had bad wiring problems (that were solved last June). The more we do to it seems the worse it misses.

 

[Road Grabber]

Sounds like a lean condition. Or overheating perhaps. Besides all the other things you can try…

Do you have power brakes? If so Plug the vacuum line coming out of the intake just to see if there is a difference. You might have a bad vacuum brake diaphragm.

If you have a Holley do you have float level sight screws on the side of the bowl? If so you can carefully remove it (put something under the bowl like a small rag in case you drop it) and check to see if the float level is correct. It should just trickle out when you remove the screw. I don’t know how long the carb sat but a stuck needle and seat would cause problems. Rap the top of the bowl to see if you have a stuck needle.

Have you drained the antifreeze at all recently?
You may have an air pocket. Start the engine with the rad cap off and wait till you see the antifreeze flow across at try to let it flow a bit and put the cap back on.

I hope you aren’t overheating the engine. Do you have a temp gauge? What does it read when you have this problem getting worse?

Again you could need larger jets. Take the plugs out and tell us what they look like. Take pictures and post if possible.

The more postings the harder to keep track so hope this helps.

Maybe a quick recap..,
It does start runs okay and gets worse as it heats up?

 

[Some Car Guy]

I don’t know what ecu I’d run these days, maybe others could tell you who makes one worth having. Electric parts are such a crap shoot. I run petronix.

Also need to check the pickup in the distributor as it could cause similar issues.

Check bulkhead connectors. If you have a hacked harness, just get a new one from year one and be done with it. Small cost compared to these troubles

 

[glrestomod]

Sounds like a lean condition. Or overheating perhaps. Besides all the other things you can try…

Do you have power brakes? If so Plug the vacuum line coming out of the intake just to see if there is a difference. You might have a bad vacuum brake diaphragm.

If you have a Holley do you have float level sight screws on the side of the bowl? If so you can carefully remove it (put something under the bowl like a small rag in case you drop it) and check to see if the float level is correct. It should just trickle out when you remove the screw. I don’t know how long the carb sat but a stuck needle and seat would cause problems. Rap the top of the bowl to see if you have a stuck needle.

Have you drained the antifreeze at all recently?
You may have an air pocket. Start the engine with the rad cap off and wait till you see the antifreeze flow across at try to let it flow a bit and put the cap back on.

I hope you aren’t overheating the engine. Do you have a temp gauge? What does it read when you have this problem getting worse?

Again you could need larger jets. Take the plugs out and tell us what they look like. Take pictures and post if possible.

The more postings the harder to keep track so hope this helps.

Maybe a quick recap..,
It does start runs okay and gets worse as it heats up?

Thanks! No, I need to change the antifreeze for sure! It can overheat, but it runs at 160 degrees unless I'm in traffic for too long, as I have the wrong radiator (from a 1070 C Body that was installed before we bought the car in 1996). I have a temp gauge hooked up (not the factory one) under the dash, and it hasn't overheated excpet one time when I was caught in traffic. It got up to about 220 for about 5 minutes. Other than that, it stays at 160 degrees.

Also, the carb was rebuilt and then tuned by a local carb expert. We also checked the float levels and they are spot on. It just trickles out. I definitely have brake problems. Dr. Diff diagnosed my brake issues through pics I sent him and my car has the wrong brake booster, and non-Charger parts on it unfortunately. I have power front discs and rear drums, but it's a cobbled together mess.

Thanks again for the help!