440 budget build what do you think?

[kjalltrac]

Here we go!
Just bought a 64 belvedere with a smogger 76 440 and 727, rear end has 2,79 and limited slip diff in an 89 housing.
Stock suspension at the moment.
No Power brakes or Power steering but has ac.

I would like to go 12s with this and still have a good street car and this is my plan.

Leave the bottom end stock = low compression. Haven´t teared it apart yet.
Re ring it and hone it if the cylinders aren't to bad.

e-street 75cc heads

comp cams xe274H cam with lifters. Should I go for a bigger one???
stock rockers

rpm manifold
headers (has hp manifold at the moment)
holly 850 dual pumper/edelbrock 750


2400-3000 stall converter
shift kit

3.73 rear end

275/60x15 ET street radials

Any suggestions, what can I do different? I don´t want to bore it and have other pistons installed due to cost.

 

[uwss]

My experience, do it right or leave it alone. In the short and long run, you will regret not tearing it down and installing quality parts. So, if you do decide to tear it down, you could always upgrade everything. Shop for deals here on this forum. Buy a quality crank, bearings, etc including rods and pistons, You can get an Eagle kit for around $2000.

 

[IQ52]

You have reasons for what you are doing and I'm picking up what you are laying down. We'd all love to spend your money but you have a right to do it your way. You're going to get a thousand different ideas on what you should do. You gotta plan, I'd stick to it, should run good.

Maybe twelve of us could contribute $1,000 and you could build a cheap 650 HP stroker.

 

[kjalltrac]

That's the thing, of course I can do it "right" the first time, but I don't have the bills to buy a 572 Hemi or bore, balance and purchase a stroker kit for this block.
So I figure, do the best with what you have. And a smogger 440 is not so fun.
IQ52=> I think you made some impressive numbers on your smogger dyno session.

I can probably get close to 400-450 hp with this combo.
I´m just not sure on the converter and rear end gear ratio.

 

[super-bee_ski]

Here we go!
Just bought a 64 belvedere with a smogger 76 440 and 727, rear end has 2,79 and limited slip diff in an 89 housing.
Stock suspension at the moment.
No Power brakes or Power steering but has ac.

I would like to go 12s with this and still have a good street car and this is my plan.

Leave the bottom end stock = low compression. Haven´t teared it apart yet.
Re ring it and hone it if the cylinders aren't to bad.

e-street 75cc heads
0,02 mp head gaskets
comp cams xe274H cam with lifters. Should I go for a bigger one???
stock rockers

rpm manifold
headers (has hp manifold at the moment)
holly 850 dual pumper


2400-3000 stall converter
shift kit

3.73 rear end

275/60x15 ET street radials



Please check out the 440 build that HT413 is currently accomplishing..
Lots of good info on that thread.

 

[67 coronet]

biggest thing to think of is matching the power band(rpm power range)on your cam,intake,and torq conv.use a carb cfm calculator to determine aprox carb needed.good equation is max rpm(be realistic here)x cubic inches,divided by 3456.round up a bit to get to the nearest size carb to that #.rear end ratio has a lot to do with overall use of the car and rear tire size.

 

[wyrmrider]

Here we go!
Just bought a 64 belvedere with a smogger 76 440 and 727, rear end has 2,79 and limited slip diff in an 89 housing.
Stock suspension at the moment.
No Power brakes or Power steering but has ac.

I have put disc brakes on No power brakes cars, you do not need a booster
you may have to put smaller wheel cylinders in back

I would like to go 12s with this and still have a good street car and this is my plan.

Leave the bottom end stock = low compression. Haven´t teared it apart yet.
Re ring it and hone it if the cylinders aren't to bad.

Then you want a short cam with lots of lift
which does NOT equal off the shelf comp cams except maybe their "purple shaft" series, others are chevy grinds for .842 lifter, cannot possibly compare with .904 grinds try Howards, Ultradynde, Engle H65- Crower all custom not catalog
Mike Jones has a cam with 256 @ .006, [email protected] but 450 lift
absolute best for a low compression Mopar with your converter-gears
and put off getting the converter till you get it on the road and see what it does with a stock HP converter, ditto with the headers if money is tight
easy to add these items later

e-street 75cc heads
0,02 mp head gaskets
GET you piston to head into the .035>.045 MAX- would be nice but can't be done with stock pistons
comp cams xe274H cam with lifters. Should I go for a bigger one???
you should not go with a chevy grind in a MOPAR
bigger cams are strip only with lower gears and a high stall converter
even 274 is way too big with your combo
stock rockers

rpm manifold
headers (has hp manifold at the moment)
holly 850 dual pumper


2400-3000 stall converter
shift kit Use Transgo reprogramming

3.73 rear end another reason for the Jones cam
http://jonescams.com/street-performance/

275/60x15 ET street radials

Any suggestions, what can I do different? I don´t want to bore it and have other pistons installed due to cost.

check your new heads for runout, valve stem clearance
shine a light in the ports and look around the seats
many need to be "blueprinted" out of the box" E just rushes the machine work or you get someone on the line having a bad day

 

[dieseldazzle]

Put a small plate kit on it. Keep it mild bet it goes 11s.

 

[dvw]

My son had a 65 Belvedere. Stock low compression (piston about .125" down)440 in decent shape. Old style Mopar .484 cam, stock Eddy heads, stock pushrods and rockers, Eddy performer RPM, Eddy 600 carb, headers, 3.91, 255/60 x15 Radial T/A (not drag radial), stock torque converter. 12.90-13.0 @107-108. Converter and tires would have easily run 12.70-12.80, probably even better. Except for setting the timing (factory Chrysler electronic) combo was untouched out of the box.
Doug

 

[bobtile]

Here we go!
Just bought a 64 belvedere with a smogger 76 440 and 727, rear end has 2,79 and limited slip diff in an 89 housing.
Stock suspension at the moment. Holy crap! Where is that and how did I miss it?
No Power brakes or Power steering but has ac.

I would like to go 12s with this and still have a good street car and this is my plan.

Leave the bottom end stock = low compression. Haven´t teared it apart yet.
Re ring it and hone it if the cylinders aren't to bad.

e-street 75cc heads
0,02 mp head gaskets
comp cams xe274H cam with lifters. Should I go for a bigger one???
stock rockers

rpm manifold
headers (has hp manifold at the moment)
holly 850 dual pumper


2400-3000 stall converter
shift kit

3.73 rear end

275/60x15 ET street radials



Please check out the 440 build that HT413 is currently accomplishing..
Lots of good info on that thread.

- - - Updated - - -

Where is that and how did I miss it?

 

[kjalltrac]

Thanks everybody,
Pretty new to the bigblock stuff, used to have a barracuda 69 with a edelbrock headed 318 and 727 4000converter, 4,56 rear end. That car went pretty good.
My twin brother over at the for A bodies only keeps picking on me how I can´t out run him in the quarter or in the street.
He has a lightened valiant signet 1965 with 273 ported small valve heads, 175hp of spray, 4 speed manual, 4.30 rear end with slicks and superstock springs. The car goes like a raped ape.
That car is about 1100 pounds lighter than mine.
Start pulling the engine out of the car to night.

 

[kjalltrac]

Did a pressure test and it read 130psi on all cylinders.

 

[Budnicks]

any of these things will no doubt help

For your modest goals, a few suggestions, not engine related to an extent


Steeper gears & a little looser converter will surly help,
to move a heavier B-Body, it's about the torque multiplication factor...

the 3.73:1 with a really much torquier higher hp engine combo, that gear will work OK,
but
Possibly a 3.91:1 with a shorter tire, but that also has far less roll out & foot print too,
Even better yet a 4.10:1 {even 4.30:1 with a taller tire}, 275/60 or better taller Drag Radial min.,
taller wider for a better footprint/traction {like a 315/50 or 60 drag radial on a 9" rim if you can fit it}
& a good 3500rpm converter would help to wake up that combo for sure, won't be as docile on the street,
but it'll, get to where you want to go anyway...

get the car working,
get some better weight transfer, lighten up the front end, move the battery to the rear,
get a glass hood & bumpers etc., get lightweight racing wheels, lighter stronger drive shaft,
& free up the front suspension travel will also help, some kind of traction aid for the rear,
better shocks adjt. preferably, at that level a set of S/S springs work well & are cheap too...

IMHFO it's allot more than just the engine,
the overall car set-up, to get stuff to work together, is the best thing,
allot of ET is made up in the 1st 330ft, I'd concentrate on that area 1st...

even with your combo, it'll do relatively well, if set-up correctly, with the proper parts/combo...

it ain't cheap but will work well...

good luck

 

[HT413]

Just a couples of questions - why the double pumper with an auto trans? I'm no expert at all, but the advice I receive is pretty much in favor or vac seconaries for auto trans. Also, I know you want those 0.020 gaskets to increase compression, but aren't they steel shims? No good for alum heads, correct?

 

[kjalltrac]

Have a 850 db laying around, but I have realized that the 750 edelbrock that came with the car will work just fine.
Had a dp on my barracuda and auto and it worked like a charm.
You have absolutely right about the head gasket

As for the rear end, I have 2 complete third members, one 3.23 and one 4.56.
But I would love to try 3.55 or 3.73.

 

[HT413]

I think you're right on track with the rear end. I'm running 4.10's but have 30" tall tires so that comes out to something in the 3:70's or 3.80's if I had a standard 26" or 27" tire. Cruising speed is 3000 rpm at about 65 mph, which suits me just fine.

I'd recommend if it's a street car to use Wallace racing's gear ratio calculator and do some fiddling. Since I plan on racing a bit, I also cross referenced my best case ET with a good estimate MPH to be sure I had enough gear to get to the finish line without needing to over rev my hydraulic cam. Remember to assume a bit of converter slippage (I've read about 5%-7%, but that's just based on some internet searching, no actual experience).

 

[kjalltrac]

I think you're right on track with the rear end. I'm running 4.10's but have 30" tall tires so that comes out to something in the 3:70's or 3.80's if I had a standard 26" or 27" tire. Cruising speed is 3000 rpm at about 65 mph, which suits me just fine.

I'd recommend if it's a street car to use Wallace racing's gear ratio calculator and do some fiddling. Since I plan on racing a bit, I also cross referenced my best case ET with a good estimate MPH to be sure I had enough gear to get to the finish line without needing to over rev my hydraulic cam. Remember to assume a bit of converter slippage (I've read about 5%-7%, but that's just based on some internet searching, no actual experience).

That would be my next question, what is the average converter slippage? Thanks!
I have used the calculators but have a hard time to decide what gear to use 3.55 or 3.73.

 

[kjalltrac]

Pulled the engine last night, got the heads off and measured the deck clearance, 0.16 down the hole.
That equals 7.6 compression.
With 75cc e-street heads = 8.35

I´m playing with the idea of putting some L2266F pistons in there to get 9,53 compression (or L2355F to get 11,15 or 10,8 with 0,051 gasket), what I found out these pistons weigh 858gr.

I´ve searched all over the web, trying to get the weight of my stock pistons, but no luck.
Any one know?
Will only consider changing pistons if I can get them the same weight as the stock pistons so I don´t have to balance the rotating assembly. (cost 800 dollars at local shop)


I could take the pistons I have apart and weigh the pistons myself, but I don´t want to risk the fact I might break something if I have to use them.


BTW the bores looks awesome without any ridges, just need a hone and new rings.

 

[dvw]

I'd just run it and see how it works. Old rings and all. My bet it'll go 12's even with the low compression ratio. If it's not to your liking shop around and build another short block. Heck if you shop around you can probably buy a short block pretty cheap, search the ads.
Doug

 

[kjalltrac]

Well, have to cut the main journals so that will add 215 bucks.
Some idiot has cut the oil pickup tube with a grinder, also cut one of the rod bolts and nut when at it. Then they have welded the tube back togetter again.
Probably done it without cleaning the engine afterword, resulting in bad bearings and main journals.

So, I´m gonna go with the 452 heads this season, pull them apart and do a back cut on the valves(my brother has a valve grinder) and clean up the ports.

Still playing with the idea of putting the l2355f in the engine.
What I come up with so far is that l2355f might be around 50 grams heavier than the stock piston.(still have´t weighted a piston).
I have both a mill and a lathe, so I could likely lightening the pistons to the same weight as stock pistons, hopefully there is enough material to remove to match the stock pistons.

Going for the comp xe284h camshaft kit with springs.
arp rod bolts and a new oil pick up tube and possible a new oilpan will be ordered.
hughes 24-30 3000stall converter
3.73 rear ratio