440 build- piston/ rod selection

[Moms68]

I am building a 440 for my 68 Charger. This will eventually replace the 340. The block is a late ‘69 standard bore which will need a .030 over bore.

I am working with an engine guy and we are in the planning stages for a 10:1 street machine that have around 500hp. Car has a 323 posi rear already.

He has suggested JE SRP pistons and Eagle H beam rods. Also looking at a Comp 21-224-4 cam using Hylift Johnson hydraulic lifters. Using Clevite bearings.

I am on the list for Eddy Performer heads. Will be using adjustable ductile rockers.

My first 440 build so looking for input from the experience of this board. Thanks.

 

[66Satellite47]

The EDE RPM's are good selection, they work pretty well. A 10.0 is very streetable even 10.5 will be fine with good gas. The Eagle rods should be excellent. Many years ago my JE pistons were top notch, forged versions. I always used the Clevite bearings. Ductile rockers are just fine. Keep the RPM around 6500. Not sure what the cam is, although I'd suggest going to a three bolt design.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

King brand bearings are cheaper and have a excellent reputation. I believe they are all coated. Nothing bad about Clevite bearings they have just gotten very pricey.

 

[493 Mike]

At this point I would recommend a stroker kit.
Mike

 

[Moms68]

At this point I would recommend a stroker kit.
Mike

What would be gained with a stroker kit? Maybe I’m just old school but 440 cubes always seemed to be enough displacement.

 

[beanhead]

Do you not trust your engine guy? Sounds like he already made a recommendation..they can get a little testy when you overrule their recommendations with stuff you read on the internet..

 

[tmaleck]

I used Wiseco in my build with the LY rods. The Wiseco has the modern friction coated short skirt with 1mm 1mm 3mm low tension ring pack. Rods were shot peened, sized and balanced.

 

[slepr1]

Almost 2 years ago was my last 500hp 440 build. Almost the same specs as you are planning (heads, 3.23, aluminum pistons/rods). I used Hughes cam/ lifters and Hughes 1.5 rockers/pushrods, MSD, Eddy Perf RPM intake. I love the Hughes cam, better than any other I've had. My compression is around 10.6. I engine dyno'd for break-in, tune and some pulls and the torque was mid-high 500's and hp was 500. Dyno'd with 2" headers and 750 holley v.s. The torque is what's important imo. I don't care how fast it goes (HP). I care how quick it is (torque) and the Hughes cam is golden for that. This engine is in my heavy Cordoba so almost as heavy as your charger.
If you want some free advice try calling Hughes Engines. They are a sponsor here.

My cam (they recommended):

 

[Moms68]

Do you not trust your engine guy? Sounds like he already made a recommendation..they can get a little testy when you overrule their recommendations with stuff you read on the internet..

Thanks for your comment. I do trust him and we have great discussions. He forgot more than I will ever know, but it’s always good to gather knowledge when you’re about to start a project. There are also knowledgable people that contribute to FBBO and I can learn from them as well….

 

[khryslerkid]

Don't know if that Chevy "Posi" rear will hold up to the horse power?

 

[beanhead]

Thanks for your comment. I do trust him and we have great discussions. He forgot more than I will ever know, but it’s always good to gather knowledge when you’re about to start a project. There are also knowledgable people that contribute to FBBO and I can learn from them as well….

Okeedokee. I agree with you that for what you're doing you don't need to shell out for a stroker kit, unless maybe you planned on going after more power later on with bigger cam/heads. They're nice, and would give you a nice torque bump at your level, but they don't come cheap & easy. I had a 440 a few years back, .040 over with the same cam and heads as yours, 9.5:1, 850 Demon carb and RPM intake into 1-7/8 headers and it made just under 500 at the crank and was plenty fun on the street and ran great on pump 91. Even then it was tough to keep the tires from spinning with basically factory suspension..

 

[451Mopar]

I used Wiseco in my build with the LY rods. The Wiseco has the modern friction coated short skirt with 1mm 1mm 3mm low tension ring pack. Rods were shot peened, sized and balanced.

or the Mahle coated pistons 1.5mm 3mm ring pack
https://www.us.mahle.com/media/usa/motorsports/bbm-440-ft-2020-web.pdf
https://www.us.mahle.com/en/motorsports/powerpak-pistons/mopar-powerpak-&-powerpak-piston-kits.jsp
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mle-929962750/make/chrysler

 

[66Satellite47]

moms, it all depends on what you want to do with the car. Street driving a 440 is plenty good. My current Satellite was built as a streeter, had a 500" with a fairly small cam, EDE heads, 4.10 gear, 325/50 drag radials and could obliterate the tires for well over 60 feet. I suspect a 440 would do about the same.
As a long time drag racer, I knew my car needed more cam for drag racing. One of my antique cams put a lot more power in the 500. The tires could not contain it.
All depends on what you are going for.

 

[Moms68]

Don't know if that Chevy "Posi" rear will hold up to the horse power?

Suregrip, suregrip!!!

 

[BSB67]

He has suggested JE SRP pistons and Eagle H beam rods. Also looking at a Comp 21-224-4 cam using Hylift Johnson mech lifters.

Do I understand this correctly, a hydraulic cam with solid lifters? I would do it, just surprised that an engine builder would recommend such a thing to a customer unless he knows you pretty well.

 

[Moms68]

Do I understand this correctly, a hydraulic cam with solid lifters? I would do it, just surprised that an engine builder would recommend such a thing to a customer unless he knows you pretty well.

Hydraulic lifters.

 

[BSB67]

Hydraulic lifters.

Oh. I think you called them "mech lifters"

 

[m79ded]

or the Mahle coated pistons 1.5mm 3mm ring pack
https://www.us.mahle.com/media/usa/motorsports/bbm-440-ft-2020-web.pdf
https://www.us.mahle.com/en/motorsports/powerpak-pistons/mopar-powerpak-&-powerpak-piston-kits.jsp
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mle-929962750/make/chrysler

I'm not a very big fan of Mahle pistons for a street engine, Yes I totally would agree they are the lightest pistons but at the same time they have no skirt and they wobble in the bore, seen and heard a few strokers with Mahle's sound like a bad diesel at startup and when we called Mahle the tech guy said "Well it's the nature of the beast with hardly any skirt it wobbles in the bore especially cold", I really like ROSS pistons especially for street engine

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Imo...Ductile iron rockers I would do a solid cam. But.. If I were doing a hydraulic I would run rhoads Vmax lifters. The bodies are made by hylift johnson. The vmax is adjustable you can adjust it to near 0 lash and it will get rid most of the hydraulic cam hp losses, darn near act like a solid...or run some lash and gain some bottom end. Run a lot of lash and it will act like a cam size smaller down low... but the sewing machine noise is not for everyone.
Driving its hard to beat a stroker engine. All that torque is fun. By the time you buy rods, pistons, balance and turn down a 3.75" crank you are getting closer to a stroker kit in costs. Quite frankly our 510 gets better milage and has better street manners then any of our 440s. And the performance is no contest. We still have 383 and 440s and enjoy them...but if I am buying the hardware you are talking of in upgrades its a no brainer..stroker engine

 

[What’s up dock]

Yeah, I'd agree with the stroker recommendation.
Think of it like this: The cost of the pistons, rings, rods, cam, bearings, lifters, pushrods, rockers, and so forth are all the same for stroker or stock stroke.
The only difference in price is the crank. Keep in mind you would have had to pay to get your stock crank ground and polished, anyway. Subtract that cost from the cost of a new crank, and there is you difference in overall cost to "stroke it".