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440 Magnum Rebuild advice needed

LR1970

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Hi, I am rebuilding a 440 Magnum and would like some advice on parts.

I have a 67 Coronet R/T with factory carb, intake, hp exhaust manifolds, 727 and 3.23 rear. The car is a used as a cruiser mainly.

I plan to use a factory Magnum spec cam or similar for driveability and cruising, but I would like to have some more power when I put my foot down. Will a Holley street dominator intake, 750 eddy/holley, OS valves, head porting and headers with 3inch exhaust system give me the extra power or is it all related to cam size? I plan on 10.1 compression.

I just don't want to spend money on items that are not going to give me the power benefits when using a smaller cam.

Thanks
 
If it were my money and as you said, you're looking for a street cruiser, I'd skip the head porting. Just get a slightly warmer cam than a magnum grind, add headers and keep whatever exhaust system you have (if it doesn't need replacing).
 
Imo, 3" exhaust is over kill for a mild build engine. On porting, clean up the bowls (area just under the valves) at least but leave the rest of the port like it is. The bowl area sucks from the factory and will do more good to clean that up and well worth the money and leave the valve size like it is. Check to make sure the intake matches the heads. If the intake manifold ports are bigger than the heads, fix that but by blending the ports. Air 'falls' down a step a lot easier than it does trying to go over a step so an intake that's smaller than the heads isn't so bad but can still benefit from blending. A 750 and small cam doesn't make much sense with big ports, valves and exhaust so match all of that with your cam and it should run great.
 
If you don't have a desktop dyno software, try playing with Comp's camquest when looking for a cam. I wouldn't get carried away with a bunch of head work and any exhaust over 2 1/2 " if i am building a warmed over 440 but of course I am frugal. Like I always tell my buddy, are you out to win races or drive it and have fun.
 
Driveability and cruising is not problem for a 440 with a 'decent' sized camshaft. A .528" Mopar solid cam is a good one. You want my advice, don't even bother with a hydraulic camshaft. A solid just runs so much nicer. More power, better idle quality and driveability.

Any smaller than a .528" Mopar cam in a 440, you are just choking it and may as well build a 340. As for exhaust, 1 7/8", even 2" headers, and dual 3" exhaust are perfect for a mild 440.

Some people just don't get a 440. It is a 4.320" + bore, ridiculously tall deck with only a 3.75" stroke, and a 1.80 rod ratio. It is what aftermarket companies like Dart had to remake a Chevrolet big block into, to make it fast. A 440 loves big everything. You don't go shove 1 3/4" headers good for a 318 on a 440ci engine and then be disappointed falsely believing that your big block is a truck engine. A cast crank 'junkyard' 440 will spin to 7200rpm like a small block, as it is with a good intake, cam, ported heads, exhaust. And run 10's doing it.

If you don't 'get' a 440..... stick with a smallblock ;)
 
Hi, I am rebuilding a 440 Magnum and would like some advice on parts.

I have a 67 Coronet R/T with factory carb, intake, hp exhaust manifolds, 727 and 3.23 rear. The car is a used as a cruiser mainly.

I plan to use a factory Magnum spec cam or similar for driveability and cruising, but I would like to have some more power when I put my foot down. Will a Holley street dominator intake, 750 eddy/holley, OS valves, head porting and headers with 3inch exhaust system give me the extra power or is it all related to cam size? I plan on 10.1 compression.

I just don't want to spend money on items that are not going to give me the power benefits when using a smaller cam.

Thanks

Maybe this will help answer some of your questions.

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?58687-Iron-head-test-starting-on-78-440/page3&highlight=dyno+440
 
A cast crank 'junkyard' 440 will spin to 7200rpm like a small block, as it is with a good intake, cam, ported heads, exhaust. And run 10's doing it.
And for how long does that hold up? Tell the truth now....I have some experience with 7000+ rpm 440's.....
 
I built my 440 around the fact I was using 323 gears. Edelbrock rpm intake with a 750 cfm carb and stay around 230 @ 50,000 cam with 1/2 inch of lift and you will have tire smoking torque and strong power to about 6000 rpm. Most people make the mistake of over camming resulting in less power then stock at least below 3000 rpm's.
 
Imo, 3" exhaust is over kill for a mild build engine. On porting, clean up the bowls (area just under the valves) at least but leave the rest of the port like it is. The bowl area sucks from the factory and will do more good to clean that up and well worth the money and leave the valve size like it is. Check to make sure the intake matches the heads. If the intake manifold ports are bigger than the heads, fix that but by blending the ports. Air 'falls' down a step a lot easier than it does trying to go over a step so an intake that's smaller than the heads isn't so bad but can still benefit from blending. A 750 and small cam doesn't make much sense with big ports, valves and exhaust so match all of that with your cam and it should run great.
X2....
Port matching is the key... but nobody really does it other than a handful... when you buy an intake or head and bolt that on... unless yo made the parts you get the luck of the draw... I would go to a junk yard and out of a hundred heads I found my pair of 100 'intakes I found the one I want all the same #'s but the core shift was different and it = less grinding... when the match is smoothed you don't get a place for a drip to happen so the fuel stays atomized and not collecting in a puddle... when you do the bowls it's opens up the valves to breath but more than that it will be more constant.. say the engine has 800 horse power.... 8 cylinders a hundred a piece... wrong unmatched heads and manifolds means that that 100 per cylinder is really 125 on one and 75 on another... blending the bowls taking out the casting flashes and port matching makers the engine smooth and not fight it self because of the slightest difference.... you wouldn't run a smaller intake valve on one cylinder but it's the same as not doing a port job.... I use a porting kit and a drill. Takes me all day to do an intake. Don't go too big because it will cause a loss in velocity and vacuum.... a small runner intake keeps it's velocity the big valves open and get more of a shot than if it was a huge cfm runner.... this is where bigger is not better...
 
And for how long does that hold up? Tell the truth now....I have some experience with 7000+ rpm 440's.....

Well here is my experience with 2 of my own 440's back in the late 90s,

I never kept them for enough years to find out what eventually happened to them, but the one was a 69 steel crank engine, it was still standard bore, i bought it as a good runner, had the machine shop torque plate hone it .005, and it cleaned up 99.9% perfect, the hone just missed 2 small spots in 2 cylinders, it was good enough for me. The crankshaft was the same deal, it was just polished and kept standard size. I had the same machine shop fly cut the stock pistons, tapped the block for a 1/2" hemi pickup, drilled the main feeds bigger, they also resized the stock rods for me and fitted ARP bolts. I built it myself. Clevite main and rods. I was shifting it dead on at 7200rpm with a .590' solid in an A body. I remember i fitted crane golds, isky 3/8 pushrods, max effort hand ported 906's with milodon 2.14/1.81 valves, flowed 320cfm. Baffled sump, 2" headers, Team G, 830 annular from memory, or was it an 850, I cant even remember now but it was definitely an annular, either one. Mopar race distributor. Basically I copied one of the brackets in the engine book, but with a standard bore block, stock pistons, and crank journals. I sold the engine to a guy who put it in a rail dragster as is, and soon after i saw it doing 8.90 1/4's and i don't know where it went after that as i got out of the racing scene in that state afterwards.

that 440 above that i drove hard for 6 months then went on to do 8.9 1/4's in a rail car, was never line honed, never bored, and still used the standard main caps, and standard main bolts, and stock rods, stock pistons, stock crank just polished, stock head bolts, as it had come from Chrysler in 1969.

The other 440 i had was fairly much the same but not quite as radical, and cast crank. It came as it was in a car i bought, removed it and i found it had already been rebuilt and bored 0.030', flat tops, they looked like cast pistons, cheaper looking than the genuine Mopar pistons. It had stock rebuilt 452 heads on it, again i did all the bolt on mods, hand ported the heads myself (the 69 engine above the heads were done by a very good proffesional head porter), new valve springs, bigger cam, all the bolt on stuff, 2 1/8 custom headers (as i was planning on going more radical with the build afterwards) but never did. I was shifting that car exactly to 7200rpm also (for some reason both 440's i had would go the best to that rpm, and then just begin to flatten out, well the cast crank one felt a little less happy at that rpm somehow than the steel crank engine so i kept it at no higher than that, maybe the balance was a little off), now i think that engine 'probably' still had stock rod bolts, they didn't look like ARP's, i pulled one of the rod caps off, the bearings were like new, so i torqued it back on. And it still had the standard 3/8" oil pickup but i fitted a mopar windage tray and HV pump. I sold that engine also as a runner to a guy after doing a LOT of runs on the street with it, back then the streets were like a race track, so through all the way to top gear, countless times. and i have no idea where that engine went afterwards but he did install it in his car and i saw it driving not too long afterwards. So it too was still in one piece.

I think my experience sounds better than yours. And i would attempt it over again, and again. Sure one might break, but the attention to detail of putting it all together, especially on the first 69 motor, done right and making sure the oil pan was properly baffled and all the clearances loose, and it had a good windage tray and good oiling and the crank journals were standard but polished and nice and straight, and not running the rod bearing clearances so tight others would be literally asking me "how do you get your engines to not spin bearings".... i just wouldn't talk. Tell people you didn't machine a crank from 1969 that went on to do 8.9's (yes in a 2000lb car but still) and your bearing clearances are .005 ? i would just smile, internally.

Like i said if people don't get a 440, stick with a small block. Give me a good 69 motor from the factory that isn't too worn, and i'll do it over again. 550-600hp with stock pistons crank and rods. And yes they take a beating to 7200rpm. Would i go 7500 or more in a 440 like that, no.

Don't ask me what ive spun a stock short 383 to with only a solid cam. Nobody will even believe it. Stick with 6500rpm in your bb and have small blocks beat you is a good way of making guys with a small block happy with their decision that they're just as fast, and can get their spark plugs out easier :p

- - - Updated - - -

And I should add I was one of the first people I know of that bought a new gm ls1 car very soon after they were just released, and stuck a 600" roller in it and spun it also to 7200rpm (don't ask me why I like that number, it just seems to work as the cam combinations have been similar) and did 120mph 'cam only' with a tune, 1 3/4 headers, blah blah. Then soon people caught up and began doing all sorts of crazy numbers with them, like a 9.8 1/4 n/a ls1 that had Darton sleeves in it. It did 9's on a good day when the sleeves weren't leaking. And given half his f-body was left back at home in the garage. And then for a while there i thought these ls1's are better than a Mopar BB. But then you realize they peak at a certain point and unless you shove 20+psi into it. And then if you do that to a 440 (megablock)........... you're at 1000+hp.

This is why you can take many a 2000+hp fueler crank and shove it in a 68 dodge. The B/RB is hard to beat. Some of the W8/P5 small block guys now sort of think they're beating big blocks.... a B1-TS or Predator head fixes that quick. There's no replacement for displacement, or cylinder head flow. Combine the two and you have a 1300hp Pro Stock big block. The P5 Nascar or W8/9 engine, it peaked back at low 800's hp and 9000rpm and just isn't big enough to ever be anything more. Try take the cylinder head flow any higher, the rpm's it will need to turn just can't be viable for anybody unless you own the federal reserve.
 
Hi, I am rebuilding a 440 Magnum and would like some advice on parts.

I have a 67 Coronet R/T with factory carb, intake, hp exhaust manifolds, 727 and 3.23 rear. The car is a used as a cruiser mainly.

I plan to use a factory Magnum spec cam or similar for driveability and cruising, but I would like to have some more power when I put my foot down. Will a Holley street dominator intake, 750 eddy/holley, OS valves, head porting and headers with 3inch exhaust system give me the extra power or is it all related to cam size? I plan on 10.1 compression.

I just don't want to spend money on items that are not going to give me the power benefits when using a smaller cam.

Thanks

OK i know ive talked a heap but im having a mopar bb 'back to the future' kind of moment.

Just to get back on topic just to simply answer your question, yes the camshaft will govern the engine output but not more so or less so than other mods. Without getting into specifics, if you followed my advice below all you can end up is disappointed that your cruiser is too fast. But it will still drive nice and tame when you want it to.

2" primary headers. 3.5" collectors. dual 3" exhaust. .557" Mopar solid camshaft. Crane gold rockers minimum quality. Harland Sharp probably best. Street dominator intake but M1 preferably if you have the clearance. A good 850 carb, ootb Holley street HP's work nice ive found. 906 or 915 heads well ported with 2.14 / 1.81 valves. At least 10:1 compression ratio. Make sure whoever does the work knows what they're doing with the oiling and block prep.

It will be LOUD, at idle also. just add more mufflers to reach the DB level you're happy with.

Don't worry about the tall 3.23 rear, it will cruise nicely, but with the mods I mentioned it will melt tires throttling it on a roll and still have a decent highway cruise rpm. Two things a 440 doesn't need, short gears and high stall rpm converter. So they make a good street engine.

But the noise of a good 440 is something else. All that power and torque produced at low rpm especially with ported heads, 2" headers and a decent cam is difficult to quieten down. It will drive tame when you want it to, but without enough mufflers you will think you just built a pro stocker. They're just a loud engine. I know that sounds silly but they really are, and at idle. A 440 seems to emit more DB than a small block of equal 'dynoed' max power. I've never actually put a DB meter on one to compare, just from my own senses. They seem to sound more radical than you expect it will when beginning to go over .500" cams and good heads and so on. Maybe it's the torque that's being produced. Anyone with a 'decent' 440 knows what they will do to tires.

Back in the 90's I gave up using radials and would run M&H's on the street. One guy said to me after I met up with him after flattening in 1st from a roll, ive never seen a car accelerate that fast infront of my eyes on the street. I think he meant how it was just rolling so slow one moment, and just up and gone the next. Im sure he hadn't seen many fast radical cars, but the torque a decent built 440 makes just suprises a lot of people. They are in a league of their own for an engine using mostly standard factory 'stuff'. Only a 455 Pontiac as a factory engine comes close. Some think it beats a 440.. I think otherwise.

As for a 454 or 460, using many of their standard parts like a Mopar, they don't equal the performance of a 440. And that's been proven, time and time again, by a lot of people. From Mopar engineers themselves, to myself personally. I knew a hardcore Chevy builder once who built his first 440 for a 'wealthy' customer who just wanted a strong street/strip cruiser, and this guy who had built countless chev bb's, some very radical, thought "mild" for a big block was a .620" solid cam, 12:1 race gas, 1050 dominator, and max ported heads for the Mopar, because the cast heads on the Chrysler were so small he said, he wanted them taken to the limit, so he did. I kid you not, he didn't want the owner to be upset with it if it didn't make at least 500hp. He just had no clue about Chryslers and was learning as he went with this one. So he thought this 440 was going to be like the standard style of 454's he builds with standard blocks, heads, stroke and rods, etc. Just a so-so 500-530hp odd strong street engine, albeit race gas, but no exotic cylinder heads etc. So i went back a few months later already knowing what would happen when his Chevy big block ideas were put onto a Mopar BB, because his idea of a build for a 440 Mopar like it was a 454, was him thinking he's hopes it will make 500hp, and me thinking he is going to tune this Challenger and throttle it through the gears and not know what the hell just happened. Needless to say, he never looked at a Dodge the same again, including mine when I'd park it infront of his shop. He had probably just built close to a high 9 second engine, thinking he would be happy with a 500hp minimum as his customer requested. This was actually funny to me, he was perplexed. Air speed characteristics of a cylinder head, port volume versus cfm flow, rod ratio, bore/stroke ratio, none of that does anything.... to him a BBC with its splayed valve style heads and ports you could leave outside for birds to nest in, were FAR superior to a 440 with its 'little' truck wedge cylinder heads. They look to be visually at a glance. Until he built a Mopar.

It's like the Ford Cleveland guys who swear their engine can lay a beating on any big block, just because the heads flow 400cfm. There would be 351 4V C's at the track with roller cams north of .700" lift turning 8500rpm's to crack high 10's in a 3200 lb car. Along comes a 440 in the same weight car, with a .509" hydraulic cam that's a 'cruiser' and lays down a 10.80

I've seen it all to know what a 440 really is capable of, being difficult to beat $ for $ and reliability, not what people who never owned one or built one any decent think it is.

And even when you step it up, the Hemi guys who might think 1000hp n/a is untouchable with anything else other than a Hemi head, for the equal cubic inches, well i'll take your 550ci 1000hp Hemi, and raise you a 550ci B1-TS headed engine well north of 1250hp naturally aspirated. The original B1's are just enough to equal a Hemi. The B1-TS pro stock head is in a league of it's own. infact I think a hard block filled 361ci 'B' dodge truck engine from an old farm truck with it's stock steel crank and Oliver rods with a nice roller and pair of 500cfm B1-TS heads would be capable of keeping the P5 Nascar guys honest :thinker: :sSig_lol3: but of course you wouldn't bother
 
Thanks for the advice guys.

My plan now is:

750 Holley
Holley Street Dominator intake
Headers with 2.5 inch exhaust
Comp Cams XE268H Cam (unless someone has a better suggestion?)
The head work that Cranky suggested
I'll try to run the stock convertor and the 3.23 rear gears

Thanks again, Ill keep you posted of the outcome.
 
Keep in mind you have a 4000 lb car that you want to drive on the street regularly. This requirement should call for a mild cam that will run well in the 1500 - 3500 RPM range with max power about 5500 RPM. To cut to the chase look up my 66 Belvedere 440 build in the 12 sec forum. Simple build and relatively cheap with mostly factory parts including the intake. Car runs high 12's with slicks and low 13's on street radials. Not even close to being the fastest car around but will hold together for a long time and will burn the tires to the rims is you desire.
 
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