• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

67 GTX 440 Engine Temperature With AC

Okay, here is what I found out. Alternator wiring had a short that was causing overcharging. Electrical aftermarket temp gauge was moving up with volt meter under high RPM and was dropping when voltage dropped at idle. This is why it showed cooler at idle than on highway.
Today was 80 degrees and here are temp readings from four sources after 20 minutes sitting at idle with AC on. Aftermarket dash gauge is obviously wrong. I understand they rarely work right and cannot be repaired or calibrated as per Redline Gauges. Hand held temp reading is from top of radiator and is same at thermostat housing. Radiator cap actually has a probe that reaches coolant.
I think I am okay and have been chasing cooling ghosts. I guess that shows the issue may be in a less obvious direction than you originally thought. If I had stuck with my low reading dash gauge, I would have saved a whole lotta money. LOL
tmp_14239-IMG_20161020_154845011-836033401.jpg
tmp_14239-IMG_20161020_154746083423254046.jpg
tmp_14239-IMG_20161020_154713394-1771452036.jpg
tmp_14239-IMG_20161020_154657563_HDR941812868.jpg
 
Last edited:
I spent money on water pump, radiator recore, fan clutch, hoses, water wetter plus all those temperature reading devices. A little over $500 or so total. At least I never ordered a new radiator! I am hoping four temperature sources are enough, even though I new my in dash repop gauge was reading real low since I bought it. My repop gas gauge is not much better. Two gauges where the needle moves but don't read accurately for $140 is not a great deal. The ones I had originally that quit working seemed to both be pretty accurate. I should have gone with repair rather than replace, but Redline wants the entire instrument cluster shipped to them, not just the non-working gauges. I will wait until I reinstall the factory tachometer they rebuilt for me and see how it works before I send that off.
 
Last edited:
Finally a conclusion on the thread!!! LOL. It was definitely a brain teaser though. Glad it all worked out. Jeff
 
I guess I should have called the remaining Tappet brother on Car Talk. LOL
 
Last edited:
Sorry for the duplicate posts. I was trying to post pictures from my dentist's chair on my cell phone.
 
At least the motor is staying cool, that's all that matters.
 
So over charging was causing the electrical gauge to over read?
That's why I like mechanical water temp & oil pressure gauges. They never lie.
Glad you got it figured out.
 
Sorry you went through all that and glad you figured it out. I have an SW mechanical gauge so I tend to trust it but they are all just taking a snapshot of the location the sender is in. I've done the larger fan, shorty fan clutch and hood to radiator seal and I've noticed definite improvement, so thanks again for all the info your post generated.
 
Update. I finally bit the bullet and ordered a new $1300 correctly numbered and date coded Radiator from Glenn Ray. The one in the car I had recored was a 1969 26 " radiator for a 383 A body with ac.
Car now runs a consistent 185 degrees. It was always running cool with ac on at idle, but getting progressively hot at high rpm until it peaked about 200 degrees with ac on on the highway. New radiator dropped it 15 degrees on the highway with ac on.
 
I put my old sending unit back in the car and that solved my problem of the factory gauge reading low. I thought it was the repop gauge I installed, but it was installing a new gauge sending unit alng with the new gauge. I though I was eliminating problem by replacing both at the same time. Sometimes new parts don't work as well as the old ones.
 
Water pump flow does appear to facilitate radiator cooling up to a point. The primary flow restriction appears to be the thermostat and radiator. This article indicates that this may cause a sight positive pressure at the upper hose.

Since the water pump flow increases with engine RPM, but this does not facilitate greater flow in the radiator due to thermostat or radiator restriction, the time in radiator for cooling may be a moot point. Whether the positive pressure may cause cavitation is another issue. In a full and closed system with no air, it seems like the flow will be determined by the thermostat or radiator flow capacity. Someone above my pay grade will have to answer this.
It is a 50 year old Plymouth, not a nuclear submarine, and although they are overhead in my area constantly, I have never been picked up by a P3 to my knowledge.
The boys on the boomers tell me they have to create noise for the P3's to find them in training simulations.
The time in radiator question will hopefully be answered when I run the car tomorrow with no thermostat and see if it runs a cooler high temperature.

I have people saying if you want it to run 165, run a 165 thermostat and if you want it to run 180 run a 180. Life would be good should things be that simple. Running 215 on a 195 has proven that to me so far.

Update tomorrow.

Water Pumps

Usually centrifugal pump is used for the circulation of water in the cooling system. Figure 12.7 shows the construction of a centrifugal pump, which is driven by a fan belt mounted on a common shaft with the fan. The centrifugal pump is non-positive in action and does not build up high pressure. It simply consists of a casing inside which an impeller containing vanc-s is rotated. Water enters the inlet pipe from the bottom of the radiator and is directed by a passage to the centre of the impeller where it is caught by the rotating vanes. Due to centrifugal force the water is thrown out into the stationary casing. The kinetic energy imparted to water by the impeller is converted into pressure energy in the stationary casing so that a pressure difference is created between the inlet and outlet of the pump causing forced circulation of water in the system. Since the impeller is always submerged in the water, a seal is used to make a water tight joint where the impeller shaft passes through the casing.
clip_image0021_thumb.jpg

Fig. 12.7. Sectional view of a centrifugal pump.
The water pump on a V-8 engine at cruising speed pumps about 475 litres per minute of operation. Depending on the restriction of the thermostat and radiator, the water pump may create a slight positive pressure at the upper hose. The pump insures an adequate flow of coolant through the water jackets and radiator. The pump usually causes a flow of about 0.3 to 0.6 m/s through the radiator tubes. A slightly higher velocity although produces a greater efficiency in the radiator but causes a higher power loss at the water pump. Coolant flow with a velocity more than 1.8 m/s is considered a waste of power.
The water pump impeller shaft is supported by a double set of ball bearings which are permanently lubricated and sealed. A carbon seal is used to keep the coolant from leaking along the pump shaft. A weep hole in the housing allows any coolant that seeps past the seal to escape from the pump preventing corrosion or damage to the pump bearings.
12.4.2.
Wow what a display of Centrifugal pump info , quite impressive!
 
I live in Florida where the summer temperature is a consistent 90-95. Car has 195 degree thermostat, so runs 195 with AC off. I have been told by Classic Air to expect running the AC in hot weather to add 15 degrees to operating temperature. Car runs 205 to 210 degrees with the A/C on on a scorching day. New cars run these temps and may even have 205 degree thermostats.

Should I have any worry about this or is this a normal expectation for and A/C car in a hot climate? I am assuming going to a 180 thermostat would only reduce the time at startup until the thermostat opened since the car is running 195 with the the thermostat open and the AC off. Am I wrong about this?

Any responses from those with 67 440 A/C cars in a hot climate and a temperature gauge on what their car runs with A/C off and A/C on would be appreciated.

I see lots of "my car never runs above 180 degrees with a 180 degree thermostat", but not necessarily from someone with A/C in a hot climate.
Hey there, I to have a 67 440 Gtx, and recently added a Classic Perfect fit system to it , and the temps are up some ! But not like yours , when system added also added a koolflow w/p and a Milodon 180 thermo, 26” oem rad (recored) 2707 Hayden clutch and oem 7 blade 18.5 “ fan with shroud. Recently added the air shield under and behind bumper with correct rubber strip to seal as well and rubber under front of hood to direct max air thru the radiator, no heat issues so far , verified with heat gun , hope some of this is useful to you and am available to help if I can ! P.S Jim Drain in Pinnellas park area is super sharp builder and my good friend!
 
Auto Transport Service
Back
Top