69 RR stalls shifting into D or R

[prvtmotors]

Hello all,

Spent the last 3 years building a 69 roadrunner. Thought I would finally drive the car today and sure enough it stalls out when shifting into gear.

To give a lil back story, I bought a straight body and it came with a 440 and 727. I thought it would be a simple task of putting the motor and trans in, getting some interior restored and voila. Well 3 years later and several tens of thousands of dollars later I'm still getting my heartbroken daily by this thing lol.

Now, the car. I made some slight upgrades to the motor.

COMP Cams Thumpr Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam and Lifter Kits CL21-602-5​

And its running a dual carb Holley 4150 sniper setup

Electric fuel pump
Holley 12-879 regulator (set at 60psi)

Not sure about the current torque converter but I'm thinking that it may not like the cam.
I have a brand new Hughes Street Master 24-25 but I REALLLLLY don't want to have to drop the tranny and put it on.

Lastly, if transmission fluid is low could that be a potential cause?

 

[1 Wild R/T]

What is your base timing set at? How much advance do you have in the distributor? If the engine is running with mechanical advance coming in at the idle RPM dropping it into gear that timing will fall out and the rpm's will drop... Often that leads to the engine dying... With a tunnel ram your gonna have to run lots of initial timing, your best bet at least for initial testing might be to lock out timing in the distributor & set the base timing at 34-36 degrees...

 

[Purepony]

Like wild rt said Timing and how’s the idle ?

 

[Kern Dog]

Two things come to mind.
1) This may be way off base, but what is the condition of the coil and the spark plug wires? Years back I had a slant six with crispy plug wires that allowed it to run decent in Park and neutral but it stalled and died every time I put it into gear. The load placed on the engine once it was in gear was enough to stall it. I swapped a distributor cap and wires from another car and it ran fine after that.
2) The torque converter may be to blame. No, low fluid won't cause this problem but an internal failure would. This is more common with the later "Lock-up" converters but can happen with the older ones as well. The converter doesn't slip as it should and acts like direct drive once the transmission is put into gear. Does the car lurch a little then die or does it not move at all and just conk out? The former indicates a converter, the latter leads me to think ignition.

 

[Black_Sheep]

Your engine vacuum is probably pretty low with that much duration and overlap. It will require 20* or more of initial timing and some carb tuning for any semblance of idle quality.

That Hughes 24-25 converter is probably going to be too tight for the specs on that cam. I suggest a 10” that will flash to 3000-3500 rpm’s.

 

[68-500]

Does is stall like it hit a wall or just can’t handle the extra load at idle?

 

[Geoff 2]

Classic example of wrong parts selection. Unless a major part such as the cam [ too big ] or the c'ter [ too tight ] is changed, there will be problems going into gear.

 

[prvtmotors]

Ok everyone, got an update. Adjusted the timing to 30 degree range as requested. Still stalling when shifting into reverse but it rolls back a few inches before it stalls! Car is idling at 1200-1300 rpm. Trying to get that idle down and get the IAC set on the sniper and hoping it should work! I'll update you all shortly.

For the gentleman who said "WRONG PARTS" - Xtreme Energy 224/230 Hydraulic Flat Cam and Lifter Kit for Chrysler 383-440

Specifically says this cam should work with stock converter.

I'm convinced this is a tuning issue and has more to do with getting the IAC steady on the sniper. Any EFI guys please feel free to chime in here. The dual quad setup makes it tough to find the perfect spot. IAC is either at 0 or 20 and I need it at 8. Just gonna tinker away until I get there.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Lock the advance... Idling at 1200-1300 means your on the advance curve.... So your 30 degrees might only be 12-15 true base timing & 15-18 degrees of advance... With the distributor locked you set it on 30 & it'll stay at 30...

When you drop it in gear it's gonna drop a few RPMs, the convertor, cam & tunnel ram are all gonna contribute to that... Thumpers can work with a stock convertor but it takes tuning & the plenum volume of the tunnel ram increases the challenge...

If there is mechanical advance in the distributor when the RPMs drop that advance falls out... When it falls out the RPMs drop further, significantly further... It might recover... But a EFI that hasn't learned won't & it'll never be ideal...

Lock out the advance, your life will be much easier...

BTW Cool Shot, car looks Badass..

 

[prvtmotors]

Lock the advance... Idling at 1200-1300 means your on the advance curve.... So your 30 degrees might only be 12-15 true base timing & 15-18 degrees of advance... With the distributor locked you set it on 30 & it'll stay at 30...

When you drop it in gear it's gonna drop a few RPMs, the convertor, cam & tunnel ram are all gonna contribute to that... Thumpers can work with a stock convertor but it takes tuning & the plenum volume of the tunnel ram increases the challenge...

If there is mechanical advance in the distributor when the RPMs drop that advance falls out... When it falls out the RPMs drop further, significantly further... It might recover... But a EFI that hasn't learned won't & it'll never be ideal...

Lock out the advance, your life will be much easier...

BTW Cool Shot, car looks Badass..

I'm actually gonna head to summit and grab this Hyperspark EFI kit. Seems excessive, I know but it will clean up the wires and should be able to stabilize and learn without the need for manual setting. I'd much rather get rid of the old points system and ballast resistor at this point.

PLYMOUTH Mopar big block RB Ignition System Combo Kits - hyperspark kit KEYWORD - Free Shipping on Orders Over $109 at Summit Racing

 

[Black_Sheep]

Ok everyone, got an update. Adjusted the timing to 30 degree range as requested. Still stalling when shifting into reverse but it rolls back a few inches before it stalls! Car is idling at 1200-1300 rpm. Trying to get that idle down and get the IAC set on the sniper and hoping it should work! I'll update you all shortly.

For the gentleman who said "WRONG PARTS" - Xtreme Energy 224/230 Hydraulic Flat Cam and Lifter Kit for Chrysler 383-440

Specifically says this cam should work with stock converter.

I'm convinced this is a tuning issue and has more to do with getting the IAC steady on the sniper. Any EFI guys please feel free to chime in here. The dual quad setup makes it tough to find the perfect spot. IAC is either at 0 or 20 and I need it at 8. Just gonna tinker away until I get there.

View attachment 1534163

In the Op you said the cam was a CL21-602-5, when you bring that part number up on Comp’s website it calls for a 2800+ stall converter. In your most recent post which I quoted, you’re saying it’s a 224/230 Comp xtreme energy cam. So which is it? The specs between the two are night and day different…

Big Mutha' Thumpr 243/257 Hydraulic Flat Cam and Lifter Kit for Chrysler 383-440

Big Mutha' Thumpr 243/257 Hydraulic Flat Cam and Lifter Kit for Chrysler 383-440. Street/strip; needs 9.5:1 compression, 2800+ stall, intake, gears & headers; very rough idle.

www.compcams.com

Xtreme Energy 224/230 Hydraulic Flat Cam for Chrysler 383-440

Xtreme Energy 224/230 Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam for Chrysler 383-440 (Single-Bolt). Great for street machines. Slightly rough idle. Will work with a stock converter, but best with a 1800+ stall.

www.compcams.com

 

[prvtmotors]

In the Op you said the cam was a CL21-602-5, when you bring that part number up on Comp’s website it calls for a 2800+ stall converter. In your most recent post which I quoted, you’re saying it’s a 224/230 Comp xtreme energy cam. So which is it? The specs between the two are night and day different…

http://[URL]https://www.compcams.co...-cam-and-lifter-kit-for-chrysler-383-440.html

[/URL]

http://[URL]https://www.compcams.co...-hydraulic-flat-cam-for-chrysler-383-440.html

[/URL]

It's the latter. Xtreme Energy cam not the thumpr. Not sure how I posted that link

 

[prvtmotors]

Alright guys, installed the Holley Hyperspark system and everything seems to be tamed down (rpms at 950 instead of 1300 previously but sniper is set to 750)! However, when I went to put it in gear, my headers are burning up my shift cable. This will now be the second time this week I replace it and I haven't even driven the car. I even added extra insulation and heat shield to the wire in the areas where it's close to the headers. Is my only solution to get my headers wrapped? Really don't feel like taking them off.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Reroute the cable... Some guys find a shorter cable is better, others have added brackets to guide the cable & keep it away from the headers...

Good to hear it's getting closer...

 

[Some Car Guy]

Engine masters just did a header wrap shootout. Funny that I watched that yesterday and now see this post. Maybe add a strip and do the rerouting too.

 

[Wietse]

I am using the sniper also with the hyperspark setup and mine also does not like cold idle.
I had locked the idle timing to 20 degree, there is an option in the menu to do so and disables "idle spark"
Set the idle AFR target to 12.5 -13.0 first too help it idle, later on you can try different (leaner) setting as you go and find a good setting. If it is at stock settings it will idle too lean, hence heating up the headers too much.
Don't bother trying to set the idle when the engine is not at operating temperature because it will not manage with that cam. ( mine is little less 283/292, and will not idle without interference)
At the cold start you will need to tinker the throttle little bit to get it to warm up, once it has some temperature it will idle by itself. (focus on that first)
Once at warm idle you can do some adjustment on the throttle position to get the IAC to work better, the max. 10% rule went overboard with selecting a cam like that so don't screw around to much to achieve the impossible. If it runs good and does not stall with 15% don't go any further. (it needs a lot of idle air)
Make sure the IAC "locks" when giving throttle, standard it locks at 20%. You can see it on the screen while driving.
The higher you set the idle rpm, the more load the converter will apply on the engine and with low manifold vacuum it cannot keep it running.
I using the HUG 24-30 converter and my engine stalls at 3800 rpm with this thing, and then realized the 24-25 would have been a better choice. Maybe some day i will change it.

 

[Tony 69]

I put my shifter cable in heat shield, DEI I think. Still too close for my liking so then I the cable with shield inside an aluminum heat riser tube. No problem since. Only problem was nobody at part store knows what a heat riser is.

 

[prvtmotors]

Update: Still can’t get the IAC situation where I want it but I also believe the timing might be a hair off. Drove the car for the first time today even though it was only to get the car off the street and into the driveway. That’s a MAJOR milestone and appreciate all of the incredible input from the community. Beyond grateful as all of these comments helped me in some way shape or form

 

[QuickBpBp]

Alright guys, installed the Holley Hyperspark system and everything seems to be tamed down (rpms at 950 instead of 1300 previously but sniper is set to 750)! However, when I went to put it in gear, my headers are burning up my shift cable. This will now be the second time this week I replace it and I haven't even driven the car. I even added extra insulation and heat shield to the wire in the areas where it's close to the headers. Is my only solution to get my headers wrapped? Really don't feel like taking them off.

It's only a matter of time till it seizes in the cable or melts through. Had that happen to me once and had to drive home in high gear only. Look for a rear entry shifter set-up and it gets the cable away from the headers. Glad to hear things are moving in the right direction as there is nothing worse than spending time, money and seeing no results or going in the wrong direction.

 

[prvtmotors]

Update: I've got the car running and driving but having an issue dialing in on the proper timing to alleviate it running rich and pinging in the pipes.

440.
Edelbrock RPM Performer Heads
CompCams Xtreme Energy 224/230 Hydraulic Flat Cam
Holley Sniper Dual Quad Sniper
Holley Hyperspark Kit (distributor, ignition box, ignition coil)
Powermaster Onewire Alternator 165 amp 8-58529

I'm soooooooo close but just can't quite find the sweet spot on the distributor.

I have initial timing at 15degrees as most people have requested but its still running lean.