69 Super Bee Rebuild (my way)

[hunt2elk]

Update on the brake system.
I have about 300 miles on the Super Bee now and decided to try bleeding the brakes one more time. Can't believe it, but I did get 2 small bubbles of air out of it. I bet I bled them 10 times and ran 2 quarts of fluid through the system previously. Pedal travel now is 4.5" and that is with the 15/16" cast iron master cylinder. They do stop the car better now, just not exactly certain I like the longer pedal travel. I am going to leave it alone for now and rack up some more miles before making a final decision.
Got the new kit installed on my Road Runner with the 1 1/32 aluminum master. Pedal travel is 3" and more what I am accustomed to.
So to recap, I think a 1" bore disc/drum would be just about perfect. Problem is that nobody makes one.

 

[HawkRod]

Update on the brake system.
I have about 300 miles on the Super Bee now and decided to try bleeding the brakes one more time. Can't believe it, but I did get 2 small bubbles of air out of it. I bet I bled them 10 times and ran 2 quarts of fluid through the system previously. Pedal travel now is 4.5" and that is with the 15/16" cast iron master cylinder. They do stop the car better now, just not exactly certain I like the longer pedal travel. I am going to leave it alone for now and rack up some more miles before making a final decision.
Got the new kit installed on my Road Runner with the 1 1/32 aluminum master. Pedal travel is 3" and more what I am accustomed to.
So to recap, I think a 1" bore disc/drum would be just about perfect. Problem is that nobody makes one.

Did you use a MityVac (spelling?) to bleed the brakes? I used to be old fashioned and just pump them, but I have found that the MityVac does a spectacular job of pulling bubbles out. Bubbles make brakes no fun!

 

[hunt2elk]

Did you use a MityVac (spelling?) to bleed the brakes? I used to be old fashioned and just pump them, but I have found that the MityVac does a spectacular job of pulling bubbles out. Bubbles make brakes no fun!

I did the gravity bleed for awhile, followed by the Mityvac. And then pump, pump, pump, and pump some more. It got to the point that my wife and kids would walk the other way when I came into the house because they knew I was going to ask one of them to come out in the garage and run the brake pedal. Not really certain why it was so difficult to get all the air out of this car. Who knows, maybe I didn't do a good enough job bench bleeding the master? Although I also had everything apart a couple more times with 2 bad prop valves...

 

[69B7RR]

Hi Joel. Saw your posts re your master cylinder/air bleed problem and I recalled an issue during a recent rebuild of my rear wheel cylinders. The WC’s are the original 15/16th cylinders for my veh, a ‘69 RR-11” all drums-w/a 1” bore manual MC. Surprisingly, the inner components were also original. The inner spring ends were bare where they contact & apply outward pressure to the inner boot face. However, the Bendix rebuild kit contained “caps” for the spring ends as shown in the photo and appeared to apply more surface/pressure contact. Of course, there were no instructions with the kit, or info in the service manual, other than the original 69 MC contained a rear brake residual pressure valve to prevent air from entering the system. I found an article where Mopar, in the ‘70’s, discontinued these RP valves in their MC’s, replacing them with the above caps, called expanders, to prevent air from entering the system. I’m no expert in this stuff, and you’d need to verify, but maybe if your using a newer, or after market MC that doesn’t have the RP valves, and your rear wheel cylinders don’t have the newer expanders as mine didn’t, it might be allowing air into the system. Edit: I later relocated the article & attached....Jim

 

[hunt2elk]

Hi Joel. Saw your posts re your master cylinder/air bleed problem and I recalled an issue during a recent rebuild of my rear wheel cylinders. The WC’s are the original 15/16th cylinders for my veh, a ‘69 RR-11” all drums-w/a 1” bore manual MC. Surprisingly, the inner components were also original. The inner spring ends were bare where they contact & apply outward pressure to the inner boot face. However, the Bendix rebuild kit contained “caps” for the spring ends as shown in the photo and appeared to apply more surface/pressure contact. Of course, there were no instructions with the kit, or info in the service manual, other than the original 69 MC contained a rear brake residual pressure valve to prevent air from entering the system. I found an article where Mopar, in the ‘70’s, discontinued these RP valves in their MC’s, replacing them with the above caps, called expanders, to prevent air from entering the system. I’m no expert in this stuff, and you’d need to verify, but maybe if your using a newer, or after market MC that doesn’t have the RP valves, and your rear wheel cylinders don’t have the newer expanders as mine didn’t, it might be allowing air into the system. Edit: I later relocated the article & attached....Jim

View attachment 956215 View attachment 956216

All my wheel cylinders are the newer style and I was told by Dr Diff that all of the new wheel cylinders have the expanders like you stated. I think my problem was that there were those 2 small bubbles of air that just didn't want to come out of the system. The pedal is a lot better now and inline with what others on here are saying they have for travel with their 15/16" bore master cylinders.

 

[themechanic]

I had a leak in the bleeder hose about 1/8" from the end that goes onto the bleeder. No fluid escaped but air kept getting in. I must have bled the brakes 5 times until I happened upon the leak. I snipped 1/4" off the bleeder hose and bled the brakes again and no more air.

 

[hunt2elk]

I had a leak in the bleeder hose about 1/8" from the end that goes onto the bleeder. No fluid escaped but air kept getting in. I must have bled the brakes 5 times until I happened upon the leak. I snipped 1/4" off the bleeder hose and bled the brakes again and no more air.

Sounds exactly like something that would happen to me.

 

[hunt2elk]

One step forward and 10 steps back with the Bee project. Been fighting to get the new motor to run on pump gas without detonation for the last month and a half. We finally figured out the the engine builder made a math error and the compression ratio and cranking compression is to high. So I got to yank the motor and now need to build a crate to get it sent back to CA. It never seems to end..... Good thing I have 2 other cars to drive this summer.

 

[91r/t]

What did the compression ratio come out to be? Can't run a cometic thicker head gasket to compensate a bit? Or was it way off?

 

[hunt2elk]

What did the compression ratio come out to be? Can't run a cometic thicker head gasket to compensate a bit? Or was it way off?

10.53 and 180-185 cranking compression. Yes, one option is to replace the. 080 head gaskets with .110 or so. The other option is to replace the flat top pistons with dish, .040 head gaskets, and turn it into a quench motor. The builder will do whichever way I want. I have to decide which way to go....

 

[91r/t]

10.53 and 180-185 cranking compression. Yes, one option is to replace the. 080 head gaskets with .110 or so. The other option is to replace the flat top pistons with dish, .040 head gaskets, and turn it into a quench motor. The builder will do whichever way I want. I have to decide which way to go....

Shes pinging with that compression huh? Weird I run about 10.6 in my Charger with aluminum heads and 93 octane and have no issues. I run about 34 total timing and 18 initial. I wish you luck my friend. I'd have a hard time crating an engine up for head gaskets though.....I understand wanting the builder to fix it, but man that's alot of bullshit shipping it for that. I get it if your going the piston route then it makes sense for sure. Whichever way you decide, hope it all works out for ya. Always something it seems.

 

[Gpuller]

One step forward and 10 steps back with the Bee project. Been fighting to get the new motor to run on pump gas without detonation for the last month and a half. We finally figured out the the engine builder made a math error and the compression ratio and cranking compression is to high. So I got to yank the motor and now need to build a crate to get it sent back to CA. It never seems to end..... Good thing I have 2 other cars to drive this summer.

View attachment 961492 View attachment 961493

This sucks....

 

[hunt2elk]

This sucks....

Yes it does, but I want it done correctly and not just put a band aid on it.

 

[dadsbee]

At least you've done it enough times you know you don't need to take the hood off! The only positive..

 

[hunt2elk]

Shes pinging with that compression huh? Weird I run about 10.6 in my Charger with aluminum heads and 93 octane and have no issues. I run about 34 total timing and 18 initial. I wish you luck my friend. I'd have a hard time crating an engine up for head gaskets though.....I understand wanting the builder to fix it, but man that's alot of bullshit shipping it for that. I get it if your going the piston route then it makes sense for sure. Whichever way you decide, hope it all works out for ya. Always something it seems.

Yes, it detonates as soon as the secondaries open. Either smashing the pedal to the floor or just gradually opening them, and that is with the timing backed down to 30 degrees and the 2 stiffest springs in the distributor. You are lucky to have 93 octane, that would make a big difference. We only have 91 100% gas around here. When I mix in 5 gallons of 110 race gas with 15 gallons of 91, it runs great. The motor also has 180-185 cranking compression and no quench. Those 2 factors are what is causing the problem. The guy who built the engine admitted that he made a math error and is going to take care of it. 99.9% certain that I am going to have him rebuild it with dish pistons, a quench, around 9.5:1 compression ratio, and probably a different cam that will bleed down better also. If nothing else, I am learning a bit more about how engines work.

 

[91r/t]

Yes, it detonates as soon as the secondaries open. Either smashing the pedal to the floor or just gradually opening them, and that is with the timing backed down to 30 degrees and the 2 stiffest springs in the distributor. You are lucky to have 93 octane, that would make a big difference. We only have 91 100% gas around here. When I mix in 5 gallons of 110 race gas with 15 gallons of 91, it runs great. The motor also has 180-185 cranking compression and no quench. Those 2 factors are what are causing the problem. The guy who built the engine admitted that he made a math error and is going to take care of it. 99.9% certain that I am going to have him rebuild it with dish pistons, a quench, around 9.5:1 compression ratio, and probably a different cam that will bleed down better also. If nothing else, I am learning a bit more about how engines work.

Hell yea man it's definitely alot to take in all at once. I've done a few engines now and a ton of research and it at times was almost overwhelming. Glad he is fixing your problem for ya atleast.

 

[CoronetDarter]

At least you've done it enough times you know you don't need to take the hood off! The only positive..

I was thinking the same thing. Shows confidence...

 

[Gpuller]

Mixing 110 is not very accommodating when you want to go on a road trip. Glad you are getting done right.

 

[hunt2elk]

Mixing 110 is not very accommodating when you want to go on a road trip. Glad you are getting done right.

And that is exactly why I stipulated that it had to be capable of running on any 91 octane gas here in WI. We only have one station that sells race gas here. It is 15 miles away and even with gas being "cheap" right now, it is still $9.00/gallon.

 

[daytona kid]

What a screw up on the motor, feel your pain.. 91 is hard enough for my wallet. It's around $3 a gal here and that is making it tuff to want to drive mine a lot. I'm running a 3.91 gear now, better than what I had but still not very mpg friendly..