70 Super Bee's and Dana 60's?

[Plumcrazybee]

OK, looking for some actual documentation that shows it is impossible for a '70 383 4 speed Super Bee to have had a Dana 60 in it from factory. Mine has one, and always assumed it was added sometime after the 8 3/4 was blown up.

But I found the twin brother of original owner (owner sadly has died), and he swears unequivocally that the car came with a Dana. And this guy is a gear head, so knows his cars. He said he was there the day his brother ordered it, and was there when they brought it home. And that the rear end was never out of the car.

So I pulled diff cover today to clean out the nastiness of decades of non-use, and find a rear end in remarkably good condition. Pulled bearing caps, everything looked nearly new. Gear wear pattern is there, but really not what I expected for a hot rodded car. Heck, not even a station wagon rear from 1970 should look this good. Ring gear, pinion gear…just very good shape. Backlash right in middle of specs. So obviously a recent rebuild prior to being abandoned, right?

But then there are the date codes on the carrier and ring gear. Ring gear date - 7/8/69 carrier 10/23/69. WTF? This owners brother told me they street raced it every weekend. Never broke rear, trans, or the engine. Trans and engine are #matching to VIN. Is there a VIN location on a Dana? I sanded axle tubes by hand, and found some number stamps. Going to take some CSI work to get them legible for my old eyes. Any experts out there that can untwist my confusion?

 

[Photon440]

I wouldn't call anything 'impossible' when it came to the way stuff was built on the line. Back in 1978 a friend at work told me about his '69 383 road runner that had a Dana 60. I tried to tell him that they didn't come with that rear with a 383. He just shrugged, said HIS did.

 

[Plumcrazybee]

Well, now I am even more intrigued.

I know things at Mopar were a little "loose" on the assembly line. I just want to know if there was a way to special order a Dana. And barring that, if they were out of 8 3/4 when a car came down the line, was it held up or was a Dana put it? I am way to ignorant to know any of this. Hoping somebody on here has a possible answer.

 

[Hemi Rebel]

Show me your fender tag or build sheet.

 

[tallhair]

 

[silversedan]

I have a 68 road runner 383 4spd, that was ordered at our dealership back in the day, the original owner told me he paid my dad extra and ordered the dana (cause he knew he was going to race it) when the car came it wasn't in there and my father had to give him the money extra back, chrysler said had to have a hemi to get the dana.

 

[Plumcrazybee]

I have a 68 road runner 383 4spd, that was ordered at our dealership back in the day, the original owner told me he paid my dad extra and ordered the dana (cause he knew he was going to race it) when the car came it wasn't in there and my father had to give him the money extra back, chrysler said had to have a hemi to get the dana.

See that is exactly what I have been told, or read, for 20 years. I have to dig my fender tag out of my safe. Have no build sheet, as the animals living in the car probably used that first when they built their nests. I did bind a couple pieces of it, but nothing big enough to matter.

 

[Plumcrazybee]

Looking at my axle code on my fender tag, and it is A31, which everyone knows in Hipo axle 8 3/4 w/ 3.91 gears right?

VIN # WM21N0G154388

Tag is

N96 R11 V6W 26
V1X A31 J25 J45 M21 N85
FC7 H2X9 TX9 B05 201898
E63 D21 WM21 N0G 154388

I bought one of Galien's White Books back in the 90s and decoded the tag. And that's when I (thought) knew the Dana was not right (but happy about it). To my understanding of the codes, (and I know I am going backwards here…hey, brain is slow)…

Ramcharger hood, AM radio, White Sports Stripe, 26" radiator, Black vinyl roof, Hipo axle, 3 speed wipers, hood pins, drip rail moldings, Tic Toc Tach, Plum Crazy, High price interior, vinyl bench (black), Black upper door frame, Built Nov 5. 383 Hipo, 4 speed pistol grip, and then the VIN. I do not know what the 201898 on fender tag means anymore. I think I used to. Is it just a sequential number on assy line?

And is there a VIN stamp on a Dana anywhere?

Thanks for the help guys!

Dean

 

[super-bee_ski]

Ask Galen!

LOL

 

[Plumcrazybee]

Galen is a joke

 

[Hemi Rebel]

It could have been put in by the dealer before delivery. It would not be unheard of for the dealer to change parts around to make a sale.

 

[the mississippi madman]

I have a 68 road runner 383 4spd, that was ordered at our dealership back in the day, the original owner told me he paid my dad extra and ordered the dana (cause he knew he was going to race it) when the car came it wasn't in there and my father had to give him the money extra back, chrysler said had to have a hemi to get the dana.

It doesn't have to be a hemi to be a dana 60 but it does have to be a manual I believe

 

[hunt2elk]

It doesn't have to be a hemi to be a dana 60 but it does have to be a manual I believe

Yep, 440 and Hemi 4-speed cars got the Dana.

 

[69Coronetrt]

It could have been put in by the dealer before delivery. It would not be unheard of for the dealer to change parts around to make a sale.

The most likely scenario given the information at hand.

Plumcrazy, see if this info helps any with the numbers you found. The VIN is not stamped on the axle.

 

[Plumcrazybee]

The most likely scenario given the information at hand.

Plumcrazy, see if this info helps any with the numbers you found. The VIN is not stamped on the axle.

Oh man, 69Coronet, this is EXACTLY what I was looking for! Thank you so much! I can read the date on the right axle, and it is late 1969, The model (60), lube tag, and ratio tag(3.54) all there, and match. The BOM is definitely 603109 but I cannot make out the dash number. Haven't pulled axles all the way out, but my tape measure seems to match real close to the axle lengths.

So now what? I truly believe that a customer in a small town, Grand Junction, CO, might be able to lean on a sales manager a bit, and I am sure they would happily swap axles for the new owner if he had the cash. But the owners brother swears they took it right after it was unloaded off truck. Sure wish mice hadn't eaten build sheet. And that there was a reliable person to that made a living documenting these things for us.

No matter what, I have the axle I would have ordered if I was able to 1969 for my brand new 70 Bee.

Thanks to everybody's input!

 

[69Coronetrt]

Glad it helped.

Time fades memories. I have a hard time remembering what I had for breakfast this morning let alone what happened in the fall of '69.
Here is what we do know...there is a date correct rear end in the car. How it got there, we honestly don't know without documentation.
Regardless, nice find.

 

[Plumcrazybee]

Memories? What are those? I think I used to know…Nope, I got nothing.

Car will never be for sale anyway. And I am not restoring it. I am doing what I would have done in the 80's. Not cutting anything or making permanent changes, running a 440 with near 600 hp (with a lot of help from Dave Hughes guidance), interior is all new and almost done (Legendary stuff), Paint is done, glass is done, now rearend is done, 23 spline 4 speed all new internals (yeah, I am afraid of running it too, as it is numbers matching, so not going to hammer on it. Will wait the 23 years to get a Passon 5 speed, then hammer on it, lol). Or may just buy an 18 spline by next summer if Passon can't get their excellent idea into production.

Thank you again to everybody for their input!

 

[Tempest 455]

There was a TSB for 383 4 spd cars that had 3.91's, where if it came back for warranty work to replace the rear w/ a Dana.

 

[Hemi Rebel]

There was a TSB for 383 4 spd cars that had 3.91's, where if it came back for warranty work to replace the rear w/ a Dana.

Where do you see that?

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/1969-TSB-Index.shtml

 

[aldal]

Plumcrazybee,
When you are dealing with human beings I believe anything is possible and nothing is absolute.