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B Bodies and Road Courses - My Super Bee Setup

There are some curvy roads around lakes where I live, some with close to each other 90 degree sections.

"Back in the day" (circa 1988-91) with 70 series 14" radials on the front and L or M 60 bias 15" on the back and 3.55 sure grip in my 70 Super Bee, I could out handle brand new mustang GT's on those roads by steering the rear end with the throttle.

The looks on some of the "proud owners" faces were priceless.
 
Thanks for the awesome thread! It's amazing what can be done with the stock suspension. Just lowering my 66 Belvedere, installing 15x7 cop car wheels with 225-75's and dialing in a good amount of camber did wonders. It really surprised me and it still had the old 6 banger springs in it! Also got the weight down to 2950 and I'm sure that didn't hurt it any.....
 
Why spacers?

I needed to get the rear tires out just slightly. Normal driving I had zero issue with rubbing. On the track in high load corners, the inside of the tire would kiss the inner wheel well. Not enough to damage the tire but since I could solve it easily with a spacer, I did. I highly recommend spending the money on a quality billet spacer, not a cast aluminum one from the local parts store. I also would be careful on using a spacer without upgrading wheel studs.

One extra note….check the torque on your lugs often.
 
Thanks for the awesome thread! It's amazing what can be done with the stock suspension. Just lowering my 66 Belvedere, installing 15x7 cop car wheels with 225-75's and dialing in a good amount of camber did wonders. It really surprised me and it still had the old 6 banger springs in it! Also got the weight down to 2950 and I'm sure that didn't hurt it any.....

Wow, 2950 is light….and you are right on the alignment, it does wonders.
 
Wow, 2950 is light….and you are right on the alignment, it does wonders.
The car was only 3370 when I bought it with the original 6 automatic and started working on that right away. It had nearly 100 lbs of undercoating alone! Still had the working factory AC on it but me thinking it was going to be a drag car, I pulled it off and sold it when I blew the car apart..... Regrets
 
X2 on the Accusump. Not cheap, but they work and are a fraction of the cost of a dry sump system.
 
I'm getting ready to order torsion bars for a build similar to yours, I already have the MP XHD leafs and wonder if a 1.03 torsion bar will be big enough to balance it out. Car is a '69 Coronet and will have a 440/727, aluminum heads/intake/WP housing. Any thoughts?
 
… I already have the MP XHD leafs and wonder if a 1.03 torsion bar will be big enough to balance it out….

you will have less weight on the nose of your car with the aluminum components which will offset the lighter bars. I think you will have a significant improvement over stock, even with 1.03’s. If you want to track the car, I’d recommend bigger. I’ve read where others who have gone bigger than what I have and think the bars I have are too small.

if you want a good handling street car, the 1.03’s will do that. If you’re going to do any track time think about the 1.1’s. If you are gonna spend most of your time on the track, then there are bigger options beyond the 1.1’s.

The 1.1’s are stiff but still acceptable for me on the street. Feels similar to a modern sports car in firmness.

Good Luck - Mike
 
Thanks for the input, I'll have to re-think this a little. It will definitely see more street than track, but not much commuting so I doubt the firm ride would be a problem. I guess being balanced front to rear is my main concern, I know I'll need to weigh it to figure that out more.
 
If a goal is to have fun, one doesn't have to get crazy with modifications. If you want to get fast time of the day, a B Body weighs too much.
Autocrossing, I have seen stock MG Midgets turn in a better time than late model Camaros and Mustangs. The Midget speed maintained in corners is not made up on the straights by the fire breathing and heavier cars.
Even at Riverside, low flying Corvettes would violently pass the Lotus Super 7's on the straights, only to be passed back in a few corners.
I've had fast road cars and driven fast road cars, but never had the money to buy or build one that would take Fast Time of the Day. I still have had passes that made my hands shake like I was 90 years old. Much fun and excitement.
 
My car was a show car that was showing its age. I bought the Bee back in 1998 for $800 and did a full restoration. It was painted in 2001 and finally back on the road in 2005. I did a lot of regular car shows but after the paint started cracking and chipping, I ended up parking the car in the garage and it just sat. End of 2019, I decided to start driving the car again, and have some fun with it, before getting it repainted. I set a date to road trip the car to Tucson for the Roadkill Zip Tie Drags. It needed new tires so that started the gears turning to transform the car to have that vintage stock car vibe. I grew up next to Riverside Raceway and loved the stock cars that raced on that track and I wanted fat tires all the way around.

So in this post, I want to discuss my tire setup first, When I ordered my rims and tire, I researched the heck out of FBBO, amongst other sites, and searched things like “biggest front tires”…”Largest rear tires”….”wheel back space”….etc. I could have easily upgraded to 17’s or 18’s and my tire options would have opened up but I really wanted that old stock car look.

Here’s what I came up with:

Front Rim: 15x8, 4.5 bs

Front Tire: 245/60R15

Rear Rim: 15x10, 5.5 bs

Rear Tire: 295/50R15

These tires are roughly 26.5 in diameter front and rear for balance. I studied tire sizes over and over again and compromised with this setup to be safe. The tires are Mickey Thompson's Sportsman S/T's which have a treadwear rating of 440. The only issues are the front wheel weights would contact the upper arm and the rear tires just kiss the inside wheel well on hard turns. I went to stick on wheel weights for the fronts and added ¼ billet spacers in the rear. One important thing to note is I upgraded to 3” wheel studs that were stronger than stock

I start the day off at 32 psi and as the temps come up, I’ve seen the pressure rise 3-4 psi on a hot day once I get off the track. My tire temps are even across the rears and a little warm to the inside of the fronts. Mostly because of the extra front camber but the temps indicate my pressures are good. I’ll go over my alignment later but here is what I’ve learned about these tires on the track. The tires are a bit harder than I’d like at the 440 treadwear. I’d like to get more front tire but I’m limited on what is available. After 3 track days, I’m at about 2/3’s tread remaining. These tires are very predictable and give great feedback when they are starting to lose grip. I feel these are a great option if you are on a budget. If you really want to go fast, upgrading to something with a lower treadwear rating would be best. I do push the front tires before the rear ever starts to get loose. That could change if I had more horsepower and could steer more with the gas pedal.

View attachment 1120914 View attachment 1120915 View attachment 1120916
Where the studs needed with the required 3mm spacers?
 
If a goal is to have fun, one doesn't have to get crazy with modifications. If you want to get fast time of the day, a B Body weighs too much.
Autocrossing, I have seen stock MG Midgets turn in a better time than late model Camaros and Mustangs. The Midget speed maintained in corners is not made up on the straights by the fire breathing and heavier cars.
Even at Riverside, low flying Corvettes would violently pass the Lotus Super 7's on the straights, only to be passed back in a few corners.
I've had fast road cars and driven fast road cars, but never had the money to buy or build one that would take Fast Time of the Day. I still have had passes that made my hands shake like I was 90 years old. Much fun and excitement.
Had a lot of fun with my 66 Belvedere 2dr sedan at 2950 with the /6 and 4.10 gears. Lowered with decent wheels, tires and shocks, it wasn't bad but it was fun. Minimum money spent per smile. Most of the fun was making it light.....and who wants a Midget?? :D My X liked them but stockers weren't all that fast anywhere but in the hands of a good driver, yeah, they did well on a tight autocross but if you want something that's fast on the autocross.....the old mini's were pretty dang good and would rather have one of those vs a midget......so long as it had the 1200 engine.
 
Where the studs needed with the required 3mm spacers?

Yes, kind of. With the original studs on the right side, I wasn’t comfortable using them. They were flush with the outer edge of the lugs and I’d prefer to see a little thread protruding out of the lug. On the drivers side, the originals were changed out to regular threads and were a bit longer.
 
Yes, kind of. With the original studs on the right side, I wasn’t comfortable using them. They were flush with the outer edge of the lugs and I’d prefer to see a little thread protruding out of the lug. On the drivers side, the originals were changed out to regular threads and were a bit longer.
Wonder if they'll fit under the dog dish caps...
 
@Superbeemike

We’d love to see you down at Spring Fling Speed Festival April 21. Ever thought of attending?

IMG_9720.jpg


more info: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...d-festival-xvi-21-april-2022.html#Post3013039

event info: http://alltimeracing.com/sfsf-xvi/




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Thanks for the detailed write-up, shows that Chrysler engineers know what they were doing.

BTW, have you considered subframe connectors?
+100 on the Subframe connectors. I love the US Car Tool offerings as a few of my fellow b body friends have, but like you, I didn't want to gut the interior for the install. Hotchkis offered a bolt-in option at the time, but I worried about loosening nuts and rattles, so I found some tubular welded end types from Global West. They made a HUGE difference in the car handling flat. Either way, I highly recommend sub-frame connectors.
 
@Superbeemike

We’d love to see you down at Spring Fling Speed Festival April 21. Ever thought of attending?

Actually have thought about this event for some time. I’m embarrassed to admit there’s always something keeping me from going and it’s never a good enough excuse. SoCal was my old stomping grounds and I attended Spring Fling way back, probably over 20 years ago (as a spectator). I’d love to take a trip back home with the Bee and Willow Springs is on my bucket list.
 
Actually have thought about this event for some time. I’m embarrassed to admit there’s always something keeping me from going and it’s never a good enough excuse. SoCal was my old stomping grounds and I attended Spring Fling way back, probably over 20 years ago (as a spectator). I’d love to take a trip back home with the Bee and Willow Springs is on my bucket list.

I’ll be there with my 4 wheel digital scales. Weighing participants Mopars for free.

Willow Springs is on the way to the show. 1 hour closer.

There a couple people in your area that have come to SFSF. One with a Silver 69 Charger and a other with the Red Brick Valiant (now building an AMX).
 
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