Best heads for a budget 440?

[440 PHIXX]

I can’t imagine anyone using the old cast iron heads, unless the are going OEM resto or get a freshly done set for cheap. The aluminum heads will allow you to run higher compression on pump gas. They will take about 50 lbs. off the front end, and most flow way better than any stock head.

 

[dvw]

You need to take a step back. Read, research, and learn. A used pair of heads that have valves that have valves that seal, have no cracks, the correct springs, guides that are somewhat tight and decent valve seals will function. All dependends on how worn everything is. Pretty tough to reman iron heads to match a new pair of stealths for the same money. It would be hard to buy a core 6 pak set-up for $500 that was in nice shape. Motors are built all the time with worn parts that run fine. Are they Ideal, nope. Can they run decent? Yes, it's all in how far they're worn and the prep building them. Will they make 500HP? Probably not. Machine work and new parts cost money. You need to set a resonable budget with-in your means. Then gain some knowledge of what it takes to use a worn/used part that will produce the desired results. Used stuff can work, If it's not used up. The key is knowing the difference. Just buying stuff at a deal seldom works. Especially if your experience is limited. We've all been there. Hard to purchase wisely if you don't know good from bad. Good luck.
Doug

 

[hunt2elk]

I would have just ponied up the $1200 for a set of Stealth heads and been done. Especially since you are looking for 500hp. Bolt on and go without having to do any port work.

 

[440 PHIXX]

I would have just ponied up the $1200 for a set of Stealth heads and been done. Especially since you are looking for 500hp. Bolt on and go without having to do any port work.

Yup. One and done. I’m a Mopar lifer. And I remember the hot ticket was the ‘67 915 closed chamber heads that have “HP” stamped on the two bolt boss. I put em on my ‘70 Six Pack Charger for a little extra compression. Back then they were worth money as the 906 heads littered the junkyards.

 

[salteen_dude]

I would have just ponied up the $1200 for a set of Stealth heads and been done. Especially since you are looking for 500hp. Bolt on and go without having to do any port work.

I would have too if I hadn't already financed a brand new truck lol. I had a 08 F250, traded in for a '24 F350... that's a different story

It's not particularly in my budget. I want to buy a good 5 or 6 speed, and focus alot on the suspension. Coilover conversion, disc brake conversion.

What I'd really love to do is buy a roadster shop frame but I've alloted myself $15,000 to build this car, including the car itself.

Already a tight budget for any rare Mopar. Lol. I make around 52k and some change every year. Weekly around a grand. I don't have a house payment but my truck payment is 581 a month, insurance is 212 a month. Without getting to personal, that leaves me with 3400 a month to put in savings, buy groceries, pay my phone bill, and build this car.

That's why I went with cast heads.

I am fortunate to have access to a freinds machine shop so I can get most all of the engine work done for next to nothing!

 

[RemCharger]

Now that's a build plan!

 

[1966satellite]

I found some 906's for $450. They came off a running engine they're orange and in good shape. An hour away from my house, worth the money?

They're probably worth the money but you should have hardened valve seats installed if you plan to run pump gas.

 

[33 IMP]

They're probably worth the money but you should have hardened valve seats installed if you plan to run pump gas.
[/QUOTE
Kinda depends on how many miles you plan on putting on it.
20k a year, maybe put seats in it. But spending that much money on iron heads.... id find some new aluminum heads.
A thousand miles a year? Id worry about the seats..... in about ten years from now.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

When talking a stock mopar head they go turbulent past .500 lift so having a cam w lift over that on a stock port is going to have diminished returns.
We do a lot of iron heads...but we do a lot of the work ourselves. Its getting harder and harder to spend the time needed on old heads. Hours and hours of grinding and flow bench time. Most our iron bb mopar heads are 300+cfm, which is obviously easier to attain with aftermarket. But, we have seen our iron heads pick up flow over aluminum at the lower lifts (.1-.4). I think we could port 4 aluminum heads to one iron one. Aluminum repairs are easier as well if we oops.

If you are doing oe iron heads on a driver... I suggest not worrying about hp numbers. Do what you can afford and not get caught up in horsepower drama. Enjoy it and drive the wheels off it.

 

[Hammer136]

You need to take a step back. Read, research, and learn. A used pair of heads that have valves that have valves that seal, have no cracks, the correct springs, guides that are somewhat tight and decent valve seals will function. All dependends on how worn everything is. Pretty tough to reman iron heads to match a new pair of stealths for the same money. It would be hard to buy a core 6 pak set-up for $500 that was in nice shape. Motors are built all the time with worn parts that run fine. Are they Ideal, nope. Can they run decent? Yes, it's all in how far they're worn and the prep building them. Will they make 500HP? Probably not. Machine work and new parts cost money. You need to set a resonable budget with-in your means. Then gain some knowledge of what it takes to use a worn/used part that will produce the desired results. Used stuff can work, If it's not used up. The key is knowing the difference. Just buying stuff at a deal seldom works. Especially if your experience is limited. We've all been there. Hard to purchase wisely if you don't know good from bad. Good luck.
Doug

Thanks. My 906 heads have been replaced with new parts except getting them ported. I see how you can get into the HP chase. Decisions.

 

[33 IMP]

To answer the original question.....
Imo, you need iron take-offs from somebody that replaced serviceable iron heads (346,452, 906, no big difference) with aluminum heads.
They have to be runnable as is, with maybe a spring change. Any money spent to freshen up a set of iron heads is a waste, imo. Porting, unless done at home, is even more of a waste.
Fresh iron for $500, is a better deal than a $200 pair that needs work.

 

[Kenji Okazaki]

I've done some searching and no clear answers yet. I have a '70 Charger, going to be a stick car. I picked up a 84k mile 440 6 pack short block for $1000. I can establish that.

I'm not sure what the best top end for it would be? I want to go with a 6 pack but I'm not sure. I tracked down a 6p intake with the carburetors, and air cleaner and all the linkages but the guy wants 1500 for the whole setup. It's worth the money for a 6p but I could also run a 4 bbl intake and a thermoquad which is easier to come across and cheaper, gets the job done. Just not sure what direction I want to go there.

What are the best heads? That aren't aluminum of course. I found a guy who has some max wedge heads that have been ported and some work done to them ready for a big cam but he wants right shy of $3000 for them.

I'm probably gonna run some long tube headers. Any recommendations there?

Any input is greatly appreciated! -Paul

For after market, Edelbrock. for stock, just rebuilt them

 

[496 polara]

I practically gave a set of fresh 452 heads away at Carlisle as I didn't want my buddy to haul them back to NC. $200. I think they were worth more but I don't need them and all the money I got from parts was helping buy upgrades.
If I needed a set of heads I would look hard at the Sidewinder heads from Marsh Performance.

 

[33 IMP]

I practically gave a set of fresh 452 heads away at Carlisle as I didn't want my buddy to haul them back to NC. $200. I think they were worth more but I don't need them and all the money I got from parts was helping buy upgrades.
If I needed a set of heads I would look hard at the Sidewinder heads from Marsh Performance.

That is EXACTLY what I would look for, for "a budget 440". ( I think you could have got more, but it might take hauling em to multiple swaps. There isn't much demand for Iron heads, and used heads are always a gamble about what they might need.)

 

[Randy Wilson]

Haven't seen anyone bring up the 915s, which are 67 only so kind of rare, but basically a 906 with a closed chamber.
You also want the bigger exh valve.

But what you found sounds fairish

The 67 440 915 head has the bigger exh. Valve

 

[BSB67]

The 67 440 915 head has the bigger exh. Valve

Not all of them.

 

[440 4 speed]

Not all of them.

The L code cars had 1:74 valves IIRC. The 350 hp valves could be enlarged to match 375 HP specs.

 

[salteen_dude]

The L code cars had 1:74 valves IIRC. The 350 hp valves could be enlarged to match 375 HP specs.

Could always just cut the valves to be bigger!

That's what I did. They're at the shop rn, I'm gonna go with the stock intake valve but going to a 1.90 exhaust valve. Should be possible with a 2.19 intake, right?

 

[salteen_dude]

When talking a stock mopar head they go turbulent past .500 lift so having a cam w lift over that on a stock port is going to have diminished returns.
We do a lot of iron heads...but we do a lot of the work ourselves. Its getting harder and harder to spend the time needed on old heads. Hours and hours of grinding and flow bench time. Most our iron bb mopar heads are 300+cfm, which is obviously easier to attain with aftermarket. But, we have seen our iron heads pick up flow over aluminum at the lower lifts (.1-.4). I think we could port 4 aluminum heads to one iron one. Aluminum repairs are easier as well if we oops.

If you are doing oe iron heads on a driver... I suggest not worrying about hp numbers. Do what you can afford and not get caught up in horsepower drama. Enjoy it and drive the wheels off it.

Oh I'm not after a high hp build lol. Just had the 500 number stuck in my head as a feasible goal. Been messing with too many ford's, Ive had 3 460's that made 500 hp on cast heads.

What do you think about the thumpr cam? From comp. I think it's .513/.498. For some reason the exhaust lift is less then the intake, but the exhaust lobe is larger. So a dual pattern cam with a larger but less aggressive exhaust lobe.

I picked it also because it has a tight lobe separation angle which I feel would be best for the lower compression (10:1 ish) big cubic inch motor on cast heads. Given the dynamic compression ratio would be higher with a earlier intake valve closing (they advertise it to be ground 5 degrees advanced, at 102 ICL)

Reason I say aggressive lobe / bigger lobe is because the .050 duration is 227/241. Seat timing is 283/303. Overall a wide and tight cam.

I'm hoping it would bring me the lopey idle, while also keeping some vacuum, raising the performance and staying within the abilities of the stock heads. They're in the machine shop right now. I can install longer valves and springs but idk how that would throw the valvetraim geometry. If anybody has done that and can chime in. I know I'll already need custom length pushrods. My mechanic buddy has the tool his boss gave to him.

Opinions on the thumpr roller? Or should I stay flat tappet?

Thanks! -Paul

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Oh I'm not after a high hp build lol. Just had the 500 number stuck in my head as a feasible goal. Been messing with too many ford's, Ive had 3 460's that made 500 hp on cast heads.

What do you think about the thumpr cam? From comp. I think it's .513/.498. For some reason the exhaust lift is less then the intake, but the exhaust lobe is larger. So a dual pattern cam with a larger but less aggressive exhaust lobe.

I picked it also because it has a tight lobe separation angle which I feel would be best for the lower compression (10:1 ish) big cubic inch motor on cast heads. Given the dynamic compression ratio would be higher with a earlier intake valve closing (they advertise it to be ground 5 degrees advanced, at 102 ICL)

Reason I say aggressive lobe / bigger lobe is because the .050 duration is 227/241. Seat timing is 283/303. Overall a wide and tight cam.

I'm hoping it would bring me the lopey idle, while also keeping some vacuum, raising the performance and staying within the abilities of the stock heads. They're in the machine shop right now. I can install longer valves and springs but idk how that would throw the valvetraim geometry. If anybody has done that and can chime in. I know I'll already need custom length pushrods. My
Opinions on the thumpr roller? Or should I stay flat tappet?

Thanks! -Paul

When you narrow up the Lsa as much as 107 with 241 on the exhaust the cam has a lot of overap. I doubt it will run the vacuum brakes. If it clicks all your boxes except making vacuum for operating power brakes you can add a electric vacuum pump later. 228 on that cam on 102 is going to be prone to detonation if you push the static compression to high. I would suggest plugging in numbers and use a dynamic compression calculator. A stock 440 is open chamber that likes a lot of timing to make power. Timing that you won't be able to attain if it detonates. Overall I would not choose that cam for multiple reasons. I usually don't consider 10:1 a low compression build in a street car on todays gas..I assume this is a pump gas build?

If a 460 Ford is your hp reference, you should have no problem meeting hp expectations. The 460 has a really lame exhaust port compared to a 440. The intake port is comparable.

Could always just cut the valves to be bigger!

That's what I did. They're at the shop rn, I'm gonna go with the stock intake valve but going to a 1.90 exhaust valve. Should be possible with a 2.19 intake, right?

I don't see any reason to run longer valves on this. We run stock length with .700 lift, longer valves will just mess up your rocker geometry. Grinding the guides for Viton seals is a easy procedure.
1.88+ exhaust valve requires the top of the block to be notched. Depends some on the cam. If your up for that then go for it, but I suggest upgrading to 1.81. Imho..the amount of work to run 1.90 isn't worth it in this build.
Flat tappet verse hydraulic roller is a judgement call. If you go with flat tappet spend more money and get hylift Johnson lifters or find old stock from 20 years ago or older. The hydraulic rollers can have issues with lifters collapsing, and lifter bores need to be in good shape. Imo you are better of buying high end lifters there too. Comp came out w their evolution series hydr roller lifters that are rebuildable if one collapses.