Brake pedal feel: How do you like it?

[Kern Dog]

After years of driving late model cars for daily drivers and classics for pleasure, I been wondering what other people prefer or consider normal for their classic cars.
For example, we all have cars with a variety of combinations. 4 wheel drum, front disc, rear drum, 4 wheel disc, Manual, vacuum boosted, Hydroboost, etc.
The very best manual brake equipped car that I have driven has been a 73-76 A body with front disc, rear drum. I have this arrangement in a 67 Dart and that car flat out works. The master cylinder is an iron 15/16", nothing fancy at all. Pedal travel is not bad but there is about 1 1/2" of slight tension free play before I feel the brakes engage. They are progressive acting too...the harder you press, the more they act.
I've driven cars with manual MCs that require me to stand on the pedal to get the car to stop. Short pedal travel, terrible feel, terrible braking action.
I've also been in power boosted cars that are so touchy, barely pressing the pedal skids the tires.
Right now, my two '70 Chargers have very different brake systems.
The red car has 4 wheel discs, a '75 Dart power booster, an aluminum 15/16" master cylinder and stops pretty good but not quite good enough. Pedal travel is good. The car stops well but not as good as the Dart. I can't get the tires to skid. It feels like I just need more force to the brakes but since I can't press any harder, the next choice is to swap in a stock type dual diaphragm booster. I did buy one but have yet to install it.
Jigsaw is a 12" front disc, 10" rear drum, manual 15/16" MC and the car stops normally, at least it has no bad habits. I don't know if it is about the same or better than the red car.
Today I drove another B body. Front disc, rear drum, stock 1966-70 booster. Super hard pedal, very short travel. It stopped okay at low speeds but I didn't take it out on the road. If the car were mine, I'd want a bit longer of a pedal stroke. This one barely moves...maybe 1 1/2" and the brakes are grabbing.

 

[Rusty knuckles]

If I could describe my preference in one word it would be "predictable" I can deal with a lot of different pedal feel and stopping ability but if the brakes kind of have a mind of their own, I don't like that. That can mean exceptionally weak or it can mean grabby/progressive.

 

[Don67Satellite]

I have manual brakes, Wilwood up front, drum in rear, Dr Diff MC, and it's ok, it stops the car.

Pedal feel is, the more I pedal, the more I stop.

Then I get in my daily driver with its 4 wheel power disks and it feels mushy. I almost prefer the manual brakes.

 

[WileERobby]

 

[Kern Dog]

I have manual brakes, Wilwood up front, drum in rear, Dr Diff MC, and it's ok, it stops the car.

Pedal feel is, the more I pedal, the more I stop.

Then I get in my daily driver with its 4 wheel power disks and it feels mushy. I almost prefer the manual brakes.

I've tried to emulate the feel I have with my 2007 Ram 1500 into my red car...

Both are 4 wheel disc with a vacuum booster. The truck is linear. The pedal travel is acceptable, the harder I push, the harder they grab. The fronts do lock, the rears are ABS.
The Charger will not lock. Braking is great at low and moderate speeds under normal conditions. It is just that as I press harder, the brakes feel like they don't get any more effective....Like I cross the "tipping point" where nothing I do past that point makes any difference.
If I only wanted to cruise the car and not drive hard, they would be acceptable.

 

[64fury74charger]

My Charger has factory power front disc rear drum and I put a new master along with new rotors and loaded calipers and all new flexible lines. Everything in the rear brakes except the drums which are in good shape. I also replaced the original proportioning valve simply because it had been in service long enough. The booster is still working fine. My feel for the brakes is they are very predictable in just about any situation and this car has always had really good brake performance.

I believe in preventative maintenance and toss parts that still function but I don’t worry too much about the brakes. The calipers and rotors I replaced were still in decent condition. It was just time to replace them.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

On the car you drove today, did you try a booster test? You know the routine, engine off pump the pedal a few times, foot on the pedal start the engine, does the pedal sink? Cause the brake free you describe sounds like a bad booster...

 

[Rishi]

I adjust (maybe we all do) my braking to the car. I don't think I give it much thought, but I believe I brake much harder in my manual drum 70s car. Because after driving it a few days, when I get back into the Pacifica (four-wheel power disc) more than once I have braked a little too hard at the first stop or two, until my brain adjusts. It freaks my wife out when I do that first abrupt stop. Her remarks freak me out.

The manual drums stop just fine in city and freeway driving. The only time I feel the least bit apprehensive, is the definite brake fade I feel at the end of a quarter mile run.

Having to stop abruptly from any 3-figure speed on a manual drum car just feels a tad scary, when most modern cars we drive are on 4-wheel power disc and ABS.

 

[Kern Dog]

On the car you drove today, did you try a booster test? You know the routine, engine off pump the pedal a few times, foot on the pedal start the engine, does the pedal sink? Cause the brake free you describe sounds like a bad booster...

I did not. The car is here for a little while. I'm working on it for a friend.

I wish he lived closer so I could let him drive a couple of my running cars to see what they feel like. Being disc/drum, I think he'd be better off with a manual MC like Jigsaw...

I will try that booster test the next time I start it up.

 

[1STMP]

"The red car has 4 wheel discs, a '75 Dart power booster, an aluminum 15/16" master cylinder and stops pretty good but not quite good enough. Pedal travel is good. The car stops well but not as good as the Dart"
KD...
4 wheel disc requires higher fluid
pressures at less volume. Your brake
lines (being stock) are on the high
volume end.
My system (totally custom built),
utilizes a 1.032 master, dual diaphram booster, 1/8" I'd lines.
Lock-up occurs with increased
pedal pressure. The front caliper
pistons are twice the volume as the
the rears. (Ford Granada/Ford
Explorer). A good quality proportioning
valve, and 2lb residual check valves
in each circuit ensures reduced
reaction between pad and rotor.
This pressure is not cumulative.
My guess is the volume of fluid
applied through through your red cars'
system is too high.

 

[Kern Dog]

I'm having some trouble understanding that. I'm not dismissing it, I just have a hard time grasping the concept.
How is it that the brakes work with a disc/drum system with the same hard line diameter front and rear? What difference would a 4 wheel disc system make?
I have the stock sized 3/16" hard line in every old car. 3 of them are manual master cylinder...front disc, rear drum. The red car is the only one with rear discs and a power booster. I've recorded over 1200 psi at the front and the rear.

 

[Kern Dog]

Sometimes it can be hard to put into words what we are thinking.
Describing "pedal feel" may be one of those things. I know that with some cars, I press the pedal a certain amount and keep my foot in the same position and it seems that the calipers and wheel cylinders just catch up and slow the car down. In other cases, I have had to press say 1/4 of the way down to scrub off 20 mph but press further to slow even more.
Then there are the cars that you press to a point and are slowing but not fast enough, so you press harder and it doesn't feel like the extra foot pressure you're doing has any extra effect.
I'm dealing with the latter on my red car.
The blue Plymouth above feels like a power boosted car with too little vacuum. It has been years since I've had a booster go bad but my foggy recollection is that the symptoms were similar. Super hard pedal, very short travel and brakes that feel like they go from off to ON instead of being linear.

 

[wagonman]

The 68 was 4 11in Drums non power . The drums were standard never cut with original Asbestos shoes. It was adequate dry, in the rain Nope. Then added the smaller pin type discs, was better but not Stellar. Now has the bigger pin brackets and Dr Diff drilled and slotted rotors and EBC green pads. What a difference with good pedal feel and can Modulate the pedal with predictable braking. Love it still non power. My 70 Charger was 4 wheel power drum and a pleasure to drive. Except one time coming down from Tahoe to Reno, was going way to fast and had wicked bad fade = Pucker factor. Might add a booster but for now I like the Dr Diff stuff on the 68.

 

[Demonic]

I like my pedal firm, like my next girlfriend’s tush.

 

[khryslerkid]

Are you running Dot 3 or Dot 5?

Dot 5 has a bit of a cushion to it. Sometimes more pedal travel until it becomes solid.

Also a 15/16" mc has more pedal travel than a larger mc. The 15/16" exerts more pressure to the system than a larger bore.

Also taking up the rear shoe "gap" gives you more pedal travel. Your shoes can be properly adjusted and you can still get a higher pedal by pumping it once before applying hard pressure.

 

[68BabyBlue]

I am running factory power discs in my '69 GTX. Ma Mopar got it right back in the day, IMO this system works as well as any modern day configuration I've driven. Interesting that so few folks ordered it as an option. Consumer Reports, and quite a few car magazines recommended it when the cars where new.

 

[khryslerkid]

Then you can get into brake pad/shoe lining material. The lining of yesterday was a more aggressive material. Several companies are using better material to help with this.

@moparedtn has been through this and I believe he came up with a good lining.

 

[moparedtn]

Then you can get into brake pad/shoe lining material. The lining of yesterday was a more aggressive material. Several companies are using better material to help with this.

@moparedtn has been through this and I believe he came up with a good lining.

Thanks my friend, but I'm now leaning towards saying the Porterfield stuff isn't much better than the old-day
over the counter semi-metallics - which is to say, at this point, I'd rate the factory semi-mets above them
IF you can get ahold of the original asbestos-based ones.

After some time in service, I still don't have that "grab" a good set of shoes gives you - even on the first apply,
so I'm probably going to contact our resident NOS hoarder and fetch the factory stuff from him.

 

[Kern Dog]

I did switch to DOT 5 to prevent future paint damage from spills or leaks. THEN I saw "Synthetic" listed on even DOT 3 stuff.
Here is a fair question.....is it the DOT number or the synthetic that prevents paint damage? Of the DOT number is irrelevant, I'll switch back to DOT 3.

 

[Demonic]

A while back, I ran DOT 5 in my Demon. The pedal was - odd. At the time, people said DOT 5 gives a different feel than DOT 3.