Cam lasted 5 minutes

[a70duster]

Here is just a suggestion the next time your friend starts up that engine at break in. Have both valve covers off and paint a small vertical line on every pushrod. When the engine is first started have a couple of people look at every pushrod can confirm that it is rotating. If a pushrod isn't rotating, more than likely the lifter below it isn't rotating and shut it down.

 

[Builderguy]

Springs would be my vote. Engine break in with old springs appears to help with cam break-in. Not hard to swap afterward. Still sucks big time. FWIW here is a little piece from Motortrend:

Flat Tappet
Flat tappets have a time-proven performance history. They’ve won a lot of races and have served untold billions of people very well. The flat tappet advantage is less mass and weight compared to a roller tappet. Although it is easy to assume the flat tappet rides the cam lobe dead center. Nothing could be further from the truth. The flat tappet, be it hydraulic or mechanical, rides slightly to one side of the cam lobe, which causes the lifter to spin on the lobe for more uniform wear. Flat tappet lifters are actually not flat. They have a slight crown on the face of the lifter. The cam lobe is machined with a slight taper, which causes the lifter to ride the taper allowing the lifter to spin as it rides the lobe.
Where flat tappets get into trouble is oil starvation, improper valve lash adjustment, excessive valvespring pressure, and/or improper break-in. A flat tappet cam’s most critical moment is during that first firing. You must have a zinc additive in your engine oil to enable the tappets to work-harden the cam lobes so they will live a long time. Torco Break-In Engine Oil (SAE 30) for engine builders contains zinc and other additives important to proper cam lobe work-hardening during that critical first firing and break-in. Fire the engine and let it run at 2,500 rpm for 30 minutes to work-harden the lobes. Continue to run a zinc additive or a diesel-specific engine oil after the break-in.
And one more thing. When you’re installing a flat tappet camshaft, use the correct assembly lubricant. Cam journals get engine assembly lube. Cam lobes get moly lube, which is that charcoal gray slippery stuff that helps tappets work-harden the cam lobes. Flat tappet cams are more affordable than their roller counterparts. This factor makes them more appealing going in. However, the benefits of low cost in the flat tappet cam are quickly forgotten when you learn the benefits of a roller tappet cam.

Regardless, hope all goes well for your "take two".

 

[Krooser]

Next time use plenty of Isky Rev Lube on the lobes and lifter faces.

Before starting prime the fuel system, set the initial timing so the engine fires on the first crank.

Break in the cam on single valve springs.

Cranking a fresh engine kills more cams than any other issue.

 

[kiwigtx]

Can we consider making this a sticky with all the 'cam/lifter failure' threads out there @kiwigtx @toolmanmike

This is my personal checklist, sent to me many years ago by a cousin that owned a performance shop (and races a 6-second Ford....yeah I know Ford eww WTF!)
Now obviously I'm not guaranteeing anyone's success, but this list has kept me from maybe losing a cam through several engines and different cam/lifter brands (including Comp!), as well as engines I've worked on for other people. You know as well as I do, the 'horror stories' are numerous. IMO anything we can do to increase our chances of success is a good thing. I even had one break-in that went really bad that (among other things) took several seconds of cranking to get it to start...and that one ran great.

***If there's anything else anyone wants to add, feel free.....I'm just posting this in the spirit of keeping FBBO high speed low drag!


View attachment 1499360

Thread is stuck for now.

 

[moparedtn]

BTW.. watched this last night, guy has a great way to check lifter spinning before even getting the motor together (might be a known thing but i had never seen it before)
P.S. he also had 2 new cams at the start of the video that are actually bent which isn't something i would have ever even considered...

Rick is a fantastic reference. That series is golden!

 

[fourgearsavoy]

Start with good lifters (Howard's EDM) is my personal choice. Mark them with a sharpie to make sure they turn in the bore. Pull the inner springs. Use Joe Gibbs Driven break in oil for the first 1000 miles. Run it 10 minutes 2000 RPMs then check everything out for leaks etc. Fire it up again for another 10 minute period at 2000 RPMs then then check the rockers and everything inside the valvecover. Re-torque the rocker arms, put the covers on and enjoy.
Oops forgot to tell you to reinstall the inner springs, I highly recommend the LSM tool for this job, it's worth the money.
Gus

 

[Curiousyellow71]

DLC Lifters Provide Flat Tappet Protection
The coating looks like it would be worth trying. They also get into metallurgy, and why lifter quality has been a issue for flat tappets.

 

[bandit67]

As Builderguy posted earlier "cam lobes get moly lube", I have often wondered that when pre priming the oil lube system long enough to see oil at the rocker arms, is that enough to wash the lube off the lifter lobe? Could that be detrimental to some lobes at start up.

 

[beanhead]

I have often wondered that when pre priming the oil lube system long enough to see oil at the rocker arms, is that enough to wash the lube off the lifter lobe? Could that be detrimental to some lobes at start up.

When a good assembly lube is used, it's usually pretty tacky stuff..and the priming process won't wash it off as there's no pressurized oil flow to the lobes and lifter faces. Once the engine gets going the lube will come off but by then (hopefully!) the oil is splashing around in there. That's why we vary the rpm during a break-in.

 

[Charger 770]

Take a box of new lifters. Johnsons. Check em. I've found some that are'nt machined right to enable the lifters to spin properly. Even one machined incorrectly will trash the cam.

I wont use FT lifters without CORRECTLY refacing them ALL before fire up. Dont even bother checking them.

Do them ALL.

And use single springs. Along with everything else that has been recommended.

My 2c

 

[Meep-Meep]

If this is a hydraulic cam then you only want max 350 lbs open. Do some reverse engineering. Have the spring pressure tested for open and seat pressures. And during break in always remove the inner spring. Engine shop should have caught that. Is this a Comp Cam? If so this is not surprising, but no matter, dual springs during break-in is asking for problems. So many reports of Comp failing. Isky has been good to me. One more thing, you may not be able to get the lifters out through the top if they are mushroomed badly. Take them out through the bottom or deburr them before taking them out the top.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Cam lobes get moly lube, which is that charcoal gray slippery stuff that helps tappets work-harden the cam lobes.

When I first got my 70 Roadrunner 4-speed 440 6bbl, I had a number of pretty important issues with the car that needed to be resolved.
Before I replaced the Franken-shifter pile of mismatched parts and incorrect mounting hardware "combo", I missed a gear shift and revved a bit higher than previously, and one hydraulic lifter complained for a minute or so, but then stopped making that telltale sound.
The next time one started clicking, it never stopped, so I decided to change all 16 to a CompCams hyd lifter set.
I treated the swap like a new hyd cam and lifters regarding "assembly" and break-in, and I used that exact kind of chromoly dark gray-black colored assembly lube capping the bottom of the oil dipped lifters with it. I also ran 5 of the 6 quarts capacity with Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oil, high in zinc and other flat-tappet happiness, among other old school/race engine benefits. The other quart was Lucas Break-In Lubricant, developed for start-up runs and as an additive for "modern" oil formulas.
Running it between 2k-2,500k for about 20 minutes, and soon after did an oil and filter change.
The new lifters played very well riding the lobes of the Purple Stripe 292°/.509 cam that was in the 440 6bbl when I got the car.

 

[OldGuyGTX]

I'm not an engine builder. CompCams had a poor reputation for surface hardening their cam cores back in the 80s, it appears that reputation hasn't gone away.

This linked article is a very good read about cam installation process, do's and don'ts, a short reference to cam core surface hardening.

https://crower.com/media/pdf/cam_book.pdf

 

[67belvedere/225]

when build a engine i run a ball bead hone in all the lifter holes, and make sure the lifters are easy to go in
and then clean it out really good, i lube up the cam and lifters and use a bottle of lucas zink .
pressure the oil system and have a gauge on it , and fire it up and rev it at 2500-3500 for 20 minutes
with a big *** fan in front of the rad. scary but its the only way keep them from sitting and scrapping a cam

 

[pro-streeter]

It is the lifters they are poor quality. My engine builder will not even warrantee a flat tappet cam build. This has become very common as flat tappet. Cam’s are not in high demand. Therefore quality manufactures no longer build lifters. An Internet search will confirm as well as YouTube search.

 

[sam dupont]

Lucky for us, vintage OEM new lifters and cams show up here. Pay a little more and sleep at night.

 

[HawkRod]

I built a 416 stroker engine out of a 340 for my 73 Road Runner. I used a flat tappet cam because roller cams were temporarily not available when I built it during the pandemic. Broke it in "properly", and then drove it over 11,000 miles across country. After that I added more than 6,000 miles more to it. Then I sold the car to a super nice young guy. He recently reported that the cam had failed. So the cam failed after about 18,000 miles. Most likely this is due to limited ZDDP in oils.

My point here is that flat tappet cams, with today's oils, are still very vulnerable even after proper break in.

I have decided to help him fix this. But fixing this becomes incredibly invasive, as the engine really needs to be torn apart and thoroughly cleaned to remove metal particulates. I am buying him a new cam and lifters, and this one is a roller cam.

I know roller cams are more expensive, but not more expensive than tearing a fresh engine apart and replacing a wiped cam. I will never build another engine again (for my use) that has a flat tappet cam. It simply isn't worth the risk.

 

[hemidon1]

Ive built hundreds of engines over the last 50 years and its COMMON knowledge that you NEVER use dual springs for the break in period.Only a single lighter spring untill its broken in then you reinstall the dual spring.YES its alot of EXTRA work but now that engine has to be totally gone thru again and thats alot more work than changing springs a couple times--I know this is hard to hear but only use the outter spring when first putting the engine together then add the inner after break in. I always fire the engine and get the timing close--bring the rpm's up to about 2200 rpm for as long as the engine will stay under 200 degrees and vary the engine speed often (down to 1800 and up to 25 or 2800 momentarily to spin the lifters ) I like at least 30 minutes and more as long as it doesnt over heat--Then let the engine totally cool to stone cold--several hours or overnight . Then fire it up and with everything hooked up including the vaccumn advance--bring the engine up to where the advance is fully in and with the timing light set at 36 degrees on the wheel--line the timing mark on the balancer up with zero on the timing tab-- You should have 36 degees and when it idles from 6 or 7 to up to as much as 17 degrees but the engine will respond great with instant start up and great drivability thru the entire rpm range--hope this helps--always worked in my shop and we lost NO engines ever--Fords--Chevys--MOPARS--Pontiacs--THIS WORKS!!!!!

 

[hemidon1]

AND DO USE ZDDP oil additive from the start and add it at least every other oil change--