Cooling Air Flow Question (2 part)

[multimopes]

Question 1-
I have been playing with cooling issues on and off for sometime now. Have a 440 with a new 26" rad, 2 electric 11" puller fans (approx. 1925 cfm total) and a high flow aluminum water pump with a high flow stat and still run a little warm for my comfort zone. My car was a former race only car stripped of everything not used for drag racing. I was just playing around with it the other day and noticed that when looking down in front of the radiator, the front forward splash shields are missing in the front wheel wells. Since air, water or whatever likes to take the path of least resistance, it occurred to me that the huge openings that are unobstructed to both sides of the radiator going to the wheels may be contributing to flow loss and reducing air flow by giving it another path instead of forcing through the radiator. I bought used shields years ago and forgot about them. I will install them after cleaning them up whether they help or not. Does anyone think that installing them will help or not?
Question 2 - Because my engine has headers, I have been running around without the side shock tower to A-arm access shields in place to help dissipate heat. Do you think this helps or hurts trying to push heat out of the engine bay? I did this mainly to help air get in there to help cool the starter which will occasionally bind up when shutting off to fuel up. Those headers create an oven around it even with header wrap.

 

[jimt1971rr]

I am not really sure if the thing you mentioned would really make a difference or not. I will ask what temp do your fans turn on?

 

[multimopes]

One Fan kicks on at about 180 degrees and the second around 195. I know that they are not particularly strong pullers but they should shut off (at least one of them does) when cruising at about 70 degrees outside. The issue is really if it would force more air through the rad at highway speed.

 

[Cornpatch MO]

I think you answered your own questions . Even with fans, you need to get all the frontal air thru the radiator. Make sue if your car had factory hood to radiator rubber flaps ( and any other side flaps) that you still have them. Try this: make cardboard "dams" to force the air coming thru the grille to go thru the radiator . you can duct tape them on. That will tell you if you have an air flow problem. BTW I do not like electric fans except for extended idle speeds.......................MO

 

[Dennis H]

The factory thermal clutch fan works best for me. The panels are not in place on mine either, no impact on cooling. The ceramic header coating lowers underhood temps by 100 degrees compared to those without. Do you have a shroud? Standard pump is sufficient, and a Stant 180 Superstat has been reliable as well. Along with green coolant, these are the things that work for my applications. Parade duty today, 45 minute idle.

 

[Ranger16]

high flow aluminum water pump with a high flow stat

Maybe THAT's your problem. Coolant flowing too quickly doesn't have enough time to transfer heat.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Yes,,,,,,,,,,and NO

 

[multimopes]

Thanks for the responses. I had a regular flow stat and pump and almost no change with the high flow stuff. I have had 4 different stats in it and 2 were no good. One didn't open at all and the other (a 180) high flow, didn't open until 205 and never opened more than 1/3. I also went from a 22" rad with one 16" electric puller to the present 26" dual 11" in an aluminum shroud. I have recently installed a dual oil/trans cooler in front of rad and that seems to have made it a little warmer. In all honesty, I think I must install higher flow fans. They are only about 950 cfm each. But first, I must upgrade the alternator as I only have a 60 amp in there. I am just kind of fishing for anything I may have overlooked that might make a small difference. I believe that probably 90% of cars on this site have their forward fender shields intact so I was expecting someone to say," hey dummy, everyone knows you shouldn't run on the street without those". No one has commented on the 2nd part of leaving the shock-A-arm covers on or off. The thought here is: Is it better to direct the air flow down around the engine or augment it with all the air I can force through there? In actuality, it might be making things worse, allowing the air to exit by the wheels instead of down the sides of the motor. I also must check the timing. Runs great with no ping at all but I recently changed the plugs and found that the gaps were from 26 to 43, obviously whoever installed them did not gap them at all! The problem is me, I am not at ease running around 190 degrees. Some people here seem fine with it but it makes me nervous. I would like to run at 180 +/- 5 degrees on hot days, in traffic or otherwise. I live at around 850 feet above sea level and the last mile and a half climb sends the temp to 205 or so all year. Maybe that's normal?!?

 

[Dennis H]

Flirting with 200 would not concern me due to ambient and conditions. Ma Mopar's copper and thermal clutch fan with shroud cannot be beat for extended idle in traffic. On the stat, specify Stant Super Stat 180. Has not failed me. Use a laser temp gun to be sure of actual readings.

 

[multimopes]

I almost wish I had a factory setup. When you buy some ones race car toy that was messed with by someone else, who is a certified mechanic and trustworthy you get a mixed bag. Currently I have a Mr. Gasket high flow 160 stat and I tested in water with a manual temp gage and a laser gun. The thing that makes me wonder is why at 75 degrees ambient on an open road why 1 fan wants to stay running and the coolant temp is 185 to 190. From what I have been reading here, under those conditions and at around 50 mph no fans should be running at all!

 

[440+6]

Not sure if those years have them but on 68 to 70 there is a shield that goes from he bumper to the bottom of the core support to direct air through the radiator.

 

[multimopes]

I appreciate any response at all. If you will pardon me, but, as a rotating shift worker, this was my day off and I was sucking down a beer in the pool as it's getting a tad warmer down here and will be in the 90's the next couple of days. I have the factory manuals but I have a mutt for a car and part of it is missing, The other problem is I am a mutt also and pre-senility and fatigue is distorting my perspective. I don't see anything like you are describing in my books for 1973; by then we were too worried about pollution and bumper guards and not about anything pertaining to a performance cars operation! I will keep plugging away until I find Nervana? or her sister!........or a bigger bank account! I still love the car!!!

 

[Ranger16]

When you said "cooling problem" I had no idea you where running at 190. I don't think that is anything to worry about.

 

[multimopes]

Perhaps it is less of a problem but more of a concern from my vantage point. I like things to be bullet proof with lots of fudge factor in between. With my 3.91 gears and no overdrive on the interstate and riding up mile long hills at 60 mph I feel uncomfortable with the temperature gauge hitting 205! I have never in over 40+ years of driving all kinds of Mopars, in all kinds of weather, seen so much change in temperature with a little load on it. Maybe it's my age and light wallet, but to me I'd like it to be a tad more stable and consistent than it is currently. Eventually, I hope to make it a little more cool-capable as I am planning to move to Florida in the near future and eventually install A/C and power steering. I don't want to have to worry about the motor so much and spend more time preening my baby and not subjecting it to harsh conditions!

 

[idrivemopar]

By the way, just a side note, and maybe doesn't make much difference since your car is not original motor and cooling setup, but 73 Satellite/RR had a 28" radiator. So, I have to ask, is the opening in the radiator support smaller than your radiator or exact size for the 26"?

 

[multimopes]

That's a loaded question for me. When I bought the car it had a 22" aluminum Northern cross flow, (that was made in USA), in it with a single 16" fan with no real shroud. This was okay for the drag strip maybe, but not good enough for the street. I put a shroud from Northern on it that housed 2 - 11" fans. That helped but the single fan controller was over loaded for 2 fans so I put a Derale dual fan controller on it and it really helped but still didn't quite cut it. I bought a (supposed) 26" aluminum down flow from ECP with 2 one inch rows which was really about 24 3/4". It was also supposed to have the factory size return of 1 3/4" which was in reality 1 5/8"; other than that a nicely made unit. I didn't want to shell out more dough for more fans so I ordered a shroud from ECP for the 11" fans and moved them over. Didn't have much choice as I couldn't find a shroud on Jegs or Summit or anywhere else to fit the rad. The radiator fills the support opening almost completely with a little of the aluminum support to each side. Better than the 22". The holes lined up perfect on the drivers side but I had to drill the other side and put a 1/2" spacer to square it up front to back. I thought that the only 2 sizes for any Mopar was 22" or 26"; never heard 28" mentioned or advertised anywhere.
After that we get into the before mentioned T-stat dilemma and the added oil cooler/trans cooler I installed on the center post of the hood latch support, leaving 2 to 3" between the radiator and cooler and lots of air flow around an through. It is 10" wide and as tall as the radiator and I now realize I should have ordered a smaller one. I did this so I can monitor oil temp and trans temp; (another story). Anyway, I have seen 11" fans with 3 times the pulling power than the ones I have but need to upgrade the alternator first and rob a bank! Meanwhile back at the ranch; I am working on blocking off the front fender areas with the splash shields and aching to take the beast out and hammer it gently!

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I cut mine open for more exposed area,normal is 180ish.

 

[multimopes]

Wow, that Behemoth is awesome. Is it street legal? Thanks for posting. I would cut mine too if I thought it would help and may wind up doing so. I think they are afraid to put a track out there because you would just blow the doors off everyone else. By the time I finally get my wish of a Hemi and a Harley I will probably have such a bad back or hemorrhoids, that I wouldn't be able to sit on it or in it! I think it's time for this old man to hit the sack! The saga continues....Tune in tomorrow, same bat time. same bat station! Thanks again to every one.

 

[Cornpatch MO]

Its got to be one of two things.. air flow or water flow. I would temporarily remove the trans cooler till you figger out which of the two it is. .. Unless your radiator does not have a cooler in the bottom tank. Are you sure your gauge is accurate?
My cardboard post is easy to do and will tell for sure if you have enough air flow..............................MO

 

[idrivemopar]

I thought that the only 2 sizes for any Mopar was 22" or 26"; never heard 28" mentioned or advertised anywhere.

Actually, there are 4 sizes for 73 Satellite and RR, 19" came in the 225 and base model 318 manual and auto, 22" came in the 225 max cooling, 225 police, and 340 manual with no ac, the 26" came in the 318 police and 318 with ac, 340 ac and 400 ac, the 28" came in the 318 max cooling, 318 police with ac or max cooling, 340 max cooling, all 400/440 police, and the 440 ac and 440 max cooling.