front end woes

[70B]

I have the front end from hades in a 70 SuperBee. Every time it's aligned I roll forward and the front is out within 50 feet of traveling and goes back straight again when going backwards. I can not keep it going straight with any mods done! I'm contemplating a AlterK front end, or the Magnumforce? But my question is, is this necessary? This doesn't make sense My troubles started with a unisteer rack&pinion and have only gotten worse and undriveable, the rack and pinion is going back. Any ideas why this is happening and what can fix it?

 

[Dako]

Since you mention, "...Every time it's aligned I roll forward and the front is out within 50 feet of traveling and goes back straight again when going backwards."...I'm guessing you are doing the work by backing it in your own garage. If this is the case, it sounds like you may have some worn out control arm bushings. These can be harder to determine bad in your own garage, as a shop usualy has it up on a 'drive on' lift where they can pry on the conrtol arms from underneath. Raising it by the frame and prying with the suspension extended does not always show you whats actually bad.

Though less likely, it could also be ball joints. These can be verified by jacking up by the lower control arm then pulling in and out on the top and bottom of the tire while it's installed. You may need someone looking at the ball joints for play while you do this.

If you aren't sure, you might want to take it to an alignment shop. A good shop will point out any worn components within the front suspension that need changing.

All parts mentioned are relatively cheap, but will require some labor & special tools to replace. Bushings need to be pressed, and ball joints (upper) need a special socket.

 

[67 coronet]

dako is correct,sounds like something is loose or bad.put the front of the car on jack stands and then place your jack under the control arm(at lower shock mount is normally good)jack up the suspention to about ride hight and then check for looseness by puting your hands at 12:00 and 6:00 oclock on the tire and shaking in and out.there should be no movement.that checks the ball joints and the control arm bushings.put hands at 3:00 and 9:00 o clock to check for stearing looseness.also,while in that position,try prying on the control arms near the bushings to check for movement if you dont find anything else first.

 

[70B]

Thanks for the educated guess's but the ball joints all bushings have been replaced and BTW all work has been done on a lift in a pro shop. A arms are new Hotchkis, new shocks, new torsion bars, all new tie rod ends ect,ect. The only stock item is the lower arms, and those bushings of course have been replaced. The mystery continues..... I'm just going to eliminate the K frame I guess and go with an AlterKtion K frame. I'll have lots of new parts to sell!!!! Don't know what else can be done...

 

[Hemi Rebel]

I think some good pictures of the front steering and suspension on your car would help. I cant imagine what is up. If a pro shop installed all this stuff what do they have to say?

 

[Dako]

I think some good pictures of the front steering and suspension on your car would help. I cant imagine what is up. If a pro shop installed all this stuff what do they have to say?

X2

If you align it...then move the car and it goes out of alignment, something is not tight...be it a worn part or loose hardware (bolt/ nut, etc.). If all components are new, then a piece of attaching hardware (bolt/ nut, etc.) must be loose...it can't be anything else. The front end is simply pieces of metal bolted together. Once everything is tight, nothing moves...even if it is w-a-a-y out of alignment, it would stay w-a-a-y out of alignment. Being that you align it, if everything is tight it will stay in alignment.

I wouldn't buy more parts. I would get a fresh set of eyes on what you currently have. Good luck!

 

[RustyRatRod]

What adjustments go out when this happens? If it's the toe, I would be looking for a pitman or idler arm with too much slop in it.

 

[70B]

I'm going to work on those pics shortly, thanks!

 

[Hemi Rebel]

What adjustments go out when this happens? If it's the toe, I would be looking for a pitman or idler arm with too much slop in it.

They put a rack in it. I find it a bit weird. Either the rack isnt mounted right or more likely something is up with the upper a arms. It almost sounds to me like something is moving to the point the the caster changes so far it toes out. Then when you back it up it pulls it back in. Like when you push a grocery cart one way, and when you go the opposite direction the front wheels(casters) turn 180 degrees. Its sounds like your front wheels are trying to do a 180.

 

[70B]

Anyone have experience with Unisteer rack and pinion steering and the geometry associated with retro fitting them? This was posed to me as a potential problem and one that I'm going to eliminate, but just wondered if anyone else had used unisteer and any problems with it.

- - - Updated - - -

That is exactly the way it acts! Both tires toe out trying to flip 180 seems like. The upper A arms are new Hotchkis and the Unisteer rack is my suspect here and is being eliminated. The lower arms (stock) seem to be the movement area although I can't be positive.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Where is the rack located? If it is in front of the steering axis, here's your sign.

 

[Hemi Rebel]

That is exactly the way it acts! Both tires toe out trying to flip 180 seems like. The upper A arms are new Hotchkis and the Unisteer rack is my suspect here and is being eliminated. The lower arms (stock) seem to be the movement area although I can't be positive.

not trying to be a smart *** here, but it does have the strut rods installed? Right?

 

[70B]

Thanks for the help, I replaced the front end with a RMS AlterKtion front end and it works so good. It's like "riding on rails" now. Never did figure out the original problem but it is fixed now.

 

[Rocketman]

Since you mention, "...Every time it's aligned I roll forward and the front is out within 50 feet of traveling and goes back straight again when going backwards."...I'm guessing you are doing the work by backing it in your own garage. If this is the case, it sounds like you may have some worn out control arm bushings. These can be harder to determine bad in your own garage, as a shop usualy has it up on a 'drive on' lift where they can pry on the conrtol arms from underneath. Raising it by the frame and prying with the suspension extended does not always show you whats actually bad.

Though less likely, it could also be ball joints. These can be verified by jacking up by the lower control arm then pulling in and out on the top and bottom of the tire while it's installed. You may need someone looking at the ball joints for play while you do this.

If you aren't sure, you might want to take it to an alignment shop. A good shop will point out any worn components within the front suspension that need changing.

All parts mentioned are relatively cheap, but will require some labor & special tools to replace. Bushings need to be pressed, and ball joints (upper) need a special socket.

I just replaced both ball joints on my car because of similar issues but not quite as bad.

 

[dvw]

The original stuff works flawless when in good shape. I run close to 150 mph with my 64. Original 1964 ball joints, inner tie rods and pitman arm. Bushings are new, as is the Idler arm. Toe pattern is zeroed out with adjustable height heims in place of the outer tie rods. Wheels up and everything stays straight and square.
Doug

 

[747mopar]

It's a shame you didn't find the problem before dumping a couple grand in it, like others are saying the original works great when in proper working condition.