Hemi vs L88

Racers Hangout

  1. dvw

    dvw Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,615
    Likes Received:
    8086
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Location:
    waterford mi
    Local Time:
    4:19 PM
    No way an unprepared pure stock 427 Camaro runs 11.5 on Polyglass tires. Now prepped like the super bee with a modern cam, ignition super valve job, modern ring pack, trick converter, yes. That entire old printed list is suspect. Look at what the pure stockers run now. And then see what it takes to get one to the top of the list. neither cheap, easy , or pure stock.
    Doug
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • biomedtechguy

      biomedtechguy Accelerati Rapidus Maximus FBBO Gold Member

      Messages:
      24,658
      Likes Received:
      35604
      Joined:
      Mar 28, 2014
      Location:
      South Louisiana
      Local Time:
      3:19 PM
      Whenever the debate over "best engine, as in most powerful engine, of the muscle car era" comes up I always say the 426 Hemi stock was one of the best, but the Hemi IS the best when modifications are allowed, and the more mods, the better it stood above the others.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
      • 1967coronet440

        1967coronet440 Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        7,097
        Likes Received:
        10130
        Joined:
        Oct 26, 2016
        Location:
        Indiana
        Local Time:
        3:19 PM
        Sure sounds like that bee driver was on and off the pedal quite a few times on the big end.
         
        • Agree Agree x 1
        • Budnicks

          Budnicks You Can Just Thank Me Later FBBO Gold Member

          Messages:
          54,015
          Likes Received:
          59571
          Joined:
          Jan 16, 2011
          Location:
          NorCal Sierras
          Local Time:
          1:19 PM
          Hemi does well/better when tuning & mods are allowed
          or when boost is added
          or a professional driver
          the 440-bbl HP was a great street killer

          I've had a stock dual in-line Carter AFB 68 Hemi (427.5cid)
          dyno-d as delivered pretty-much bone stock, just cleaned up a tad
          (rebuilt as close to stock as possible, 0.010" over bore,
          a little blueprinting, balanced with better tolerances
          )
          it delivered like IIRC 484hp @ the crank at like 6,200,
          may have been 6,500 rpm

          disclaimer;
          don't mistake what I'm gonna' say next;

          the LS6 454ci & off-road available GM performance LS7 454ci
          more compression
          both all Iron canted valve-d/rectangular port BBC's
          great cylinder-heads, longer stroke, 4",
          1/4" more than the 427 3.75" (or the 440 & 426 stroke)
          LS6 rated at 425hp 475tq (11.25:1) at far less than it's red-line,
          5200rpm or something, way under rated & ran on pump gas
          & over 500hp @ 7,000rpm capable with very little tuning

          & the LS7 465hp (11.25:1) @ like 5200rpm,
          490ftlbs of torque @ like 5,200rpm
          then near 8,000rpm was more the real red-line before nosing over
          respectively out of the box near 600hp, 500+ tq on 97 oct. pump gas
          in 1970-71 & using points/shit ignition systems
          with an alum. Winters dual plane single 4bbl & Holley 850dp
          even with all that, it was way underrated too

          L88 427ci 425-430hp 12.5:1 20 made in 1967 - IIRC 80 or so more for 68 & 1969
          with the snowflake Winters Alum. cylinder heads,
          & Winters alum. dual plane 4bbl intake, Holley 850dp
          were no slouches either, also way under rated, like 100hp underrated
          they were not intended as a street engine,
          they (dealers) were discouraged from selling too many,
          to novices they preferred selling to known teams & competent racers
          they were all rated "as lower respectively 425-430 HP",
          for that very reasoning
          people wanted the most advertised HP, they could get, bragging rights etc.
          that was usually the 427ci 435hp Tri-power in the Corvette
          the L88 made easily 100+ more
           
          Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
          • Like Like x 1
          • Agree Agree x 1
          • Andew Sury

            Andew Sury FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

            Messages:
            320
            Likes Received:
            717
            Joined:
            Apr 18, 2019
            Location:
            West Palm Beach
            Local Time:
            4:19 PM
            Ha! I'm building a 70 Stage1 right now. Guess I need two drivers to play with my Hemi. One for the Buick, and one for the Chevelle. Cheby is original LS5 block, but there are alot of those Winters casting marks above the block
             
            • Like Like x 2
            • biomedtechguy

              biomedtechguy Accelerati Rapidus Maximus FBBO Gold Member

              Messages:
              24,658
              Likes Received:
              35604
              Joined:
              Mar 28, 2014
              Location:
              South Louisiana
              Local Time:
              3:19 PM
              In the 70s I was strictly MOPAR and everything else SUCKED...
              Now I appreciate the better Brand X cars and engines...
              Still, I think MOPAR has some of the best, and when I hit the streets in my 440 6bbl, I'm not "scared" given the car in the next lane being relatively at the same build level...
              Once I get my stroker motor built, there's going to be a much shorter list of competitors I would worry about getting past me...
              To me, there's no sense in investing that much money if I can't be bold in taking on any would be competition...
               
              • Agree Agree x 1
              • BB BELLA

                BB BELLA Well-Known Member

                Messages:
                467
                Likes Received:
                480
                Joined:
                Jul 27, 2018
                Location:
                Severn Bridge
                Local Time:
                4:19 PM
                ZL1 copo is all stock from the dealer.When you take 170lbs off the front end and have the suspension mods they came with it's a winner! I love mopars but you've gotta be honest and give credit where it's due!
                those motors were built for canam racing, GM just decided to let the general public have a taste!
                watch some youtube ZL1 timing tower numbers, factory stock runs under 12 without even breathing hard on it!
                 
                • Like Like x 1
                • dvw

                  dvw Well-Known Member

                  Messages:
                  5,615
                  Likes Received:
                  8086
                  Joined:
                  Feb 16, 2010
                  Location:
                  waterford mi
                  Local Time:
                  4:19 PM
                  You think those are "stock", no ah ah. Get involved in building a pure stock racecar. You'll be breathing hard, so will your wallet.
                  Doug
                   
                  Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
                  • Agree Agree x 1
                  • Fran Blacker

                    Fran Blacker FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

                    Messages:
                    9,470
                    Likes Received:
                    9089
                    Joined:
                    Sep 23, 2016
                    Location:
                    Connecticut
                    Local Time:
                    4:19 PM
                    Take the cost difference between a COPO ZL! Camaro an a hemi Super Bee and modify the Bee with the extra money and see what happens?
                     
                    • Agree Agree x 2
                    • BB BELLA

                      BB BELLA Well-Known Member

                      Messages:
                      467
                      Likes Received:
                      480
                      Joined:
                      Jul 27, 2018
                      Location:
                      Severn Bridge
                      Local Time:
                      4:19 PM
                       
                    • BB BELLA

                      BB BELLA Well-Known Member

                      Messages:
                      467
                      Likes Received:
                      480
                      Joined:
                      Jul 27, 2018
                      Location:
                      Severn Bridge
                      Local Time:
                      4:19 PM
                      believe me, I know what racing costs, did mine on the water in offshore, that requires a brief case,not a wallet!
                       
                      • Agree Agree x 3
                      • vintage chromoly

                        vintage chromoly Well-Known Member

                        Messages:
                        1,999
                        Likes Received:
                        3606
                        Joined:
                        Nov 13, 2010
                        Location:
                        ohio
                        Local Time:
                        3:19 PM
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                        How to make a small fortune racing offshore boats......

                        Start with a large fortune.
                         
                        • Like Like x 2
                        • Agree Agree x 1
                        • dadsbee

                          dadsbee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

                          Messages:
                          9,178
                          Likes Received:
                          21664
                          Joined:
                          Jan 29, 2018
                          Location:
                          Midland Ontario, Canada
                          Local Time:
                          4:19 PM
                          How to retire from aviation with a small fortune, start with a large one. Trust me.. and then a car restoration wiped me out! LOL
                           
                          • Like Like x 1
                          • BB BELLA

                            BB BELLA Well-Known Member

                            Messages:
                            467
                            Likes Received:
                            480
                            Joined:
                            Jul 27, 2018
                            Location:
                            Severn Bridge
                            Local Time:
                            4:19 PM
                            what happened with the vert you were lookin at?
                             
                          • dadsbee

                            dadsbee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

                            Messages:
                            9,178
                            Likes Received:
                            21664
                            Joined:
                            Jan 29, 2018
                            Location:
                            Midland Ontario, Canada
                            Local Time:
                            4:19 PM
                            Got sold out from under me.. probably a good thing!
                             
                          • 383man

                            383man Well-Known Member

                            Messages:
                            4,629
                            Likes Received:
                            3461
                            Joined:
                            Jul 19, 2008
                            Location:
                            Md
                            Local Time:
                            3:19 PM
                            The Hemi was lifting because as was said they don't go faster then 11.50 or you will be disqualified. And as said they have no rollbar. That Bee will run easy 10's at close to 130 mph. He has to lift to stat slower then 11.50. Same for any car in the class that's faster then 11.50 as they will brake trying to stay no faster then 11.50. Ron
                             
                          • 383man

                            383man Well-Known Member

                            Messages:
                            4,629
                            Likes Received:
                            3461
                            Joined:
                            Jul 19, 2008
                            Location:
                            Md
                            Local Time:
                            3:19 PM
                            To me the COPO and ZL1 are not the same. The COPO cars I see in the Camaro's and Chevelle's are usually the 425 HP 427 L72 eng. Where as the ZL1 is just that a full blown race 427 eng in the Camaro. 12.5 comp with over .600 lift cam and aluminum heads and block. Its a race eng all the way as I believe Chevy built the ZL1 to counter the 68 Hemi Cuda's and Dart's. Even the L88 was a 12.5 comp eng as it was pretty nasty almost as bad as the ZL1. Both good engines and its cool that Chevy offered the ZL1 on the street but they were built to the hilt as they say. A fair comparison of a street Hemi with its 10.25 comp to a 427 would be compare it to the 427 L72 eng. The ZL1 sould be compared to the race Hemi that the racers built and used in the 68 Hemi Cuda and Dart for SS racing. These car shown here are in this modified class of Pure Stock. Course these cars are fined tuned and well prepared to the max as some will run in the 10's. There was no muscle cars that ran anywhere near the 10's or even 11's back in the day all stock. Myself I love the class as they are cool cars but they are not stock the way they came off the showroom floor as these guys do their homework and work hard to get their cars to run so good. And when they go to the Pure Stock race they cant run under 11.50 or they get disqualified. Ron
                             
                            • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                            • Fran Blacker

                              Fran Blacker FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

                              Messages:
                              9,470
                              Likes Received:
                              9089
                              Joined:
                              Sep 23, 2016
                              Location:
                              Connecticut
                              Local Time:
                              4:19 PM
                              See COPO ZL1 Camaro's running SS/A all the time!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
                               
                            • dvw

                              dvw Well-Known Member

                              Messages:
                              5,615
                              Likes Received:
                              8086
                              Joined:
                              Feb 16, 2010
                              Location:
                              waterford mi
                              Local Time:
                              4:19 PM
                              Stock eliminator is a whole nother bag o beans. My friends F/SA heads were $10K. Its quick .900 under, but not a record holder.
                              Doug
                               
                              • Agree Agree x 2
                              • beanhead

                                beanhead Well-Known Member

                                Messages:
                                5,825
                                Likes Received:
                                9577
                                Joined:
                                May 18, 2014
                                Location:
                                Wackyfornia
                                Local Time:
                                1:19 PM
                                Magazine articles and "it should run this or that" are one thing, here's a real-world example: An old friend bought his '68 RR new. In the early 70's he re-did the bottom end with 12 to 1 pistons, and added what he always called a 'nascar' cam...(I never knew exactly what that meant) but I seem to remember him saying that was what was available at the time. Raced it as well as it being his only ride. No other changes except a wider early-70s tire. No other mods, stock exhaust and manifolds, nothing ported etc..and the car regularly ran mid-to-high 11s. Bench seat, column shifted, had carpet not the rubber mat, 3.91 8-3/4 rear. Still had it on the matching-color steel wheels with dog dishes when I rode around with him in '05-'06. Time slips with 11.70s from E-town still in the glovebox from the old days..by the time I knew him the dude was in his 70s and only cruised the car to work now and then(mostly because of the fuel 'cocktail' he had to mix up for it)...going for rides in that car was such a blast. Wasn't much on the street that was faster as the 'new' muscle cars weren't out yet..
                                 
                                • Like Like x 1
                                1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                                  By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.