Hot start Issue

[ksurfer2]

My car is a 64 dodge street/strip car, 512cid, MSD 6AL ignition box, running dual trunk mounted batteries. 10.5:1 compression, timing locked at 35*. The car starts and runs easily when cold. It will also start easily when hot. However, during track events, I run into issues when the car may sit for 30 minutes to an hour between runs. After 3 or 4 runs, if I turn the ignition on, and then hit the start button, the starter will drag like the battery is dying. If I hit the start button first, the motor will spin easily, but as soon as I hit the ignition button, then it will start to drag again like the battery is dead. I have checked the battery, when off, each battery is a solid 12.9 volts. At Idle, I am showing 14.7 volts at the battery, so it seems like the alternator is charging the batteries fine. Thoughts on the issue?

 

[HALIFAXHOPS]

Probably the timing is to advanced and it is showing it while hot only.

 

[Don Frelier]

Sounds like you need a way to retard the ignition when hot.

 

[pnora]

What starter are you running?

 

[Lefty71]

Funny you said you turn the ignition on and then crank.... If you have a way to let it crank up to speed and then hit the ignition, then you can tell if you are looking at a timing issue, or a possible heat sink issue with the starter. On my race car, I find it is way easier to crank up and start at any temperature if I leave the ignition off until the motor comes up to speed with the starter, and seems to easier on the starter itself too.

 

[ksurfer2]

Funny you said you turn the ignition on and then crank.... If you have a way to let it crank up to speed and then hit the ignition, then you can tell if you are looking at a timing issue, or a possible heat sink issue with the starter. On my race car, I find it is way easier to crank up and start at any temperature if I leave the ignition off until the motor comes up to speed with the starter, and seems to easier on the starter itself too.

When I try letting the engine crank prior to turning the ignition on, the motor will spin just fine UNTIL I hit the ignition. At that point, the motor will drag like the battery is dying.

 

[Lefty71]

motor will spin just fine UNTIL I hit the ignition

Well, sadly to say, it sounds like you have the timing issue i was describing, so a retard box or workaround is in order.... However, in addition, you do have a weak battery, weak starter or a heat soak issue as well. I start with new but plain new batteries every year for a track car, cuz i hate the potential embarassment you are describing.

 

[toolmanmike]

Timing locked st 35°. There's your problem

 

[ksurfer2]

I had tried an msd start retard box, but there is a high rpm miss with it, so I pulled it out. I may try it again.

 

[ksurfer2]

Did some reading on the start retard box. Looks like others have experienced the high rpm miss as well. Msd recommends using their shielded pick up cable pn 8862. Any tried this with success?

 

[steve340]

Why don't you just try manually retarding it to see if the problem goes?
If it starts well you know were to go.

 

[Lefty71]

I had tried an msd start retard box, but there is a high rpm miss with it, so I pulled it out. I may try it again.

You left us hangin' tho. Did it still have other issues? Or is the problem timing 100%, as Toolmanmike and Hallifaxhops have said??

 

[ksurfer2]

You left us hangin' tho. Did it still have other issues? Or is the problem timing 100%, as Toolmanmike and Hallifaxhops have said??

The hot start issues don't happen under normal use....drives around town etc. The issue only occurs at the track (so far). It won't happen after the first couple or runs, maybe after the third run. Last time I was at the track, I had a real hard time getting the car started for the fourth run. I was about to go find some jumper cables to get it started when it finally fired. When I got to the staging lanes, there was a delay, so I had to turn the car off for about 15 minutes. I was worried about the restart, but the car fired right up with no issue at all.

 

[Lefty71]

I had tried an msd start retard box, but there is a high rpm miss with it, so I pulled it out. I may try it again.

There are two ways to wire in the retard box. Maybe try the other way and see if the miss goes away??

 

[pnora]

Timing locked st 35°. There's your problem

On my old 526 indy headed wedge at about 14 to one started fine at a locked 35 degrees. I only had one battery and Mopar performance mini starter. I had the MSD 7AL3 ignition. I ran nitrous so I got in the habit of cranking before powering the ignition. We had problems with another 440 that was lower compression. You could never rely on it wanting to start once hot and shut off for 20 minutes or so. Threw everything at it with no luck. Switched to a lightweight mini starter and end of problems. Myself I would never run an old mopar heavyweight starter.

 

[Lefty71]

Myself I would never run an old mopar heavyweight starter.

I agree... I have good luck with McRobb.... I know some others have said they dont care for the company.

 

[ksurfer2]

Update...I reinstalled the MSD start retard box (PN 8987) along with the shielded pick up cable (PN 8862). Initial test drive was successful. The high rpm miss that was present with the initial install is gone (without the shielded pick up cable). I have the start retard set at 10*. No issue with the starts so far. However, the I have not duplicated the conditions that were causing the issues before.