Hyraulic vs. hyd. roller cam in a street car?

[hunt2elk]

I am going to have a 400 motor stroked to a 470 and am starting to go through the parts list with the builder. Debating between standard hydraulic or hydraulic roller valve train. Do you guys who mess around a lot with motors think it is a wise $300 - $400 upgrade? The guy doing the build says he would do the roller setup if it was his. Advantages are that a guy doesn't have to run zinc engine oil, and rollers are easier on things in you do a lot of idling. Any other advantages? This will not be a race motor, just a fun street car. 550 hp and 550 torque. I could care less what it does above 5500 rpm as I am never there. Will have Trick Flow 240 heads, Harland Sharpe rockers, 440 Source stroker kit 10:1, and an Edelbrock standard Performer intake worked over a bit (can't fit a RPM under my Ramcharger hood). He says he can get this intake to within 10-12 horsepower of a RPM.

 

[91r/t]

I was going to go roller in my 500” stroker until I started reading all of the horror stories about cheap roller lifters and how much they are really supposed to be changed or redone every few years. I’ll be damned if I was going to pull the lifters out every few years and have them sent out to be rebuilt. I ended up just going hydraulic flat tappet and running good oil. For how much I use the car and how I drive it, it seemed to be the better option for me. As a sidenote, I was kind of discouraged about the whole thing because every new car runs roller lifters without ever really rebuilding them, but I guess after hearing many explain the roller lifters for our cars aren’t really designed to last the same life intervals....I figured a good flat tappet cam with good oil and I’ll never have an issue.

 

[vintage chromoly]

Less little roller bearings, the better IMO.

I’d go with a solid flat tappet cam, if I were you.

I had Dave Crower grind a custom solid flat cam for my 440, and it’s been great.

 

[Crackedback]

Rollers don't tend to go flat unless the wheel fails.

 

[Hemirunner]

Rollers don't tend to go flat unless the wheel fails.

And in my opinion, most of those failures are self inflicted due to poor combinations of parts.

 

[Crackedback]

With the combo of parts it should not be tough to make 550ish HP. I know Brian at IMM has built a few strokers that get there no problem using mild HR camshafts. The 240 heads make it pretty easy too.

 

[91r/t]

Oh yea power wise it made sense and roller failures are few and far, but the maintenance they claim is needed every few years on the lifter itself is what kept me from doing it. That’s a race car thing tearing **** apart all the time. I wanted this car to just work and not be in the engine frequently. Good oil and you’ll most likely never have a flat tappet failure with a good cam and lifter.

 

[Hemirunner]

With the combo of parts it should not be tough to make 550ish HP. I know Brian at IMM has built a few strokers that get there no problem using mild HR camshafts. The 240 heads make it pretty easy too.

Yeah for 550hp, the added expense of hydraulic roller is definitely not needed.

 

[Crackedback]

Oh yea power wise it made sense and roller failures are few and far, but the maintenance they claim is needed every few years on the lifter itself is what kept me from doing it. That’s a race car thing tearing **** apart all the time. I wanted this car to just work and not be in the engine frequently. Good oil and you’ll most likely never have a flat tappet failure with a good cam and lifter.

Solid rollers with required high spring pressures and HR with mild pressures are entirely different animals. There are almost no flat tappets in use anymore in passenger cars. What's the maintenance like on those for HR lifter replacement on newer stuff? It's not an issue anymore.

I rarely use flat tappet cams anymore I think the 360 going in my Aspen R/T may be the last. Just a personal choice after seeing too many flat tappets go bad when using every single part that the manufacture suggested, tappets turning in the bores on assembly, still had them round off. One failure cost you more time, money than the cost of HR cam IMO. I'm not going that directions.

The metallurgy of the new flat tappet cam cores is NOWHERE near the same as it was back 20+ years ago. Much more latent porosity in the cores. That leads to less material in the areas it needs to be and all it takes is one deficient area in the lobe/ramps to create a problem. Maybe it's better now, after the BS with cores a while back.

Pick your parts, pay your money.

 

[91r/t]

Solid rollers with required high spring pressures and HR with mild pressures are entirely different animals. There are almost no flat tappets in use anymore in passenger cars. What's the maintenance like on those for HR lifter replacement on newer stuff? It's not an issue anymore.

I rarely use flat tappet cams anymore I think the 360 going in my Aspen R/T may be the last. Just a personal choice after seeing too many flat tappets go bad when using every single part that the manufacture suggested, tappets turning in the bores on assembly, still had them round off. One failure cost you more time, money than the cost of HR cam IMO. I'm not going that directions.

The metallurgy of the new flat tappet cam cores is NOWHERE near the same as it was back 20+ years ago. Much more latent porosity in the cores. That leads to less material in the areas it needs to be and all it takes is one deficient area in the lobe/ramps to create a problem. Maybe it's better now, after the BS with cores a while back.

Pick your parts, pay your money.

I agree to some extent , but if you go with a cam company that knows their cores and doesn’t buy them from China, your way better off. I went with Engle instead of an off the shelf Chinese cam so I am way better off. I totally agree with the lifter **** with the new cars, but they aren’t problem free either. I see quite a few new cars with cam problems when lifters fail. Most of the time it is the piece that holds them together that breaks and the lifter side loads on the cam and then roasts the roller and lobe. There’s really no perfect way to do things, just go with what you know and do your homework.

 

[lewtot184]

i don't think $300-$400 difference is realistic. when all the additional stuff is added up it's probably $1000+. I don't think any of these aftermarket performance rollers, hydraulic or solid, like idling. do more research and the zinc issue is very over stated.

 

[hunt2elk]

I know Brian at IMM has built a few strokers that get there no problem using mild HR camshafts.

Brian is who will be building me the motor.

 

[hunt2elk]

i don't think $300-$400 difference is realistic. when all the additional stuff is added up it's probably $1000+. I don't think any of these aftermarket performance rollers, hydraulic or solid, like idling. do more research and the zinc issue is very over stated.

Yeah, the zinc oil is no big deal to me as I have other old cars and run Brad Penn in them. And I feel with most things, the simpler the better. Less chance of something breaking. Brian has built a motor for me before and the price ended up being what he quoted me originally. So if he says 3-400 more for the roller setup, I guess I would believe him. I just really don't know if there is an advantage in my application.

 

[Crackedback]

He has some nice proven builds. His shop is about 2-3 miles from my house. I stop in every once in a while. Brian and Fred (his father) are really good people!

 

[threewood]

Street car, go flat tappet. Either solid or hydraulic. Personally I like the solid flat tappet for simplicity of the system and good cam profiles for street. The EDM lifters are good with them. I have heard too many stories of hydraulics losing pressure, getting debris in them, or over pressuring.

 

[Hemirunner]

I’ve used a few sets of these and really like them... they’re expensive but seem to be worth it.
https://straubtech-morellifters.com/chrysler/6074-mopar-440-903d-t-b-hi-rpm-hyd-roller

 

[91r/t]

I’ve used a few sets of these and really like them... they’re expensive but seem to be worth it.
https://straubtech-morellifters.com/chrysler/6074-mopar-440-903d-t-b-hi-rpm-hyd-roller

Holy Shiite muslim $1000 a piece or for a set??? That bitch better fly me to Vegas for that haha!

 

[moparedtn]

I've never run a roller cam in any of my old Mopars, but of course several of my more
modern rides had them from the factory - and they typically last more than a few hundred
thousand miles.
I had the '89 5.0 Mustang with one in it. Sold that car with 250k on it, engine never apart.
Ran Mobil1 from day 1, never looked back.
These late-model hemi's all have rollers, too, and they seem to be long-lived as well.

I'd gotta figure we could do the same with our older engines? Or am I being too simplistic
there?

 

[Hemirunner]

Holy Shiite muslim $1000 a piece or for a set??? That bitch better fly me to Vegas for that haha!

$1100 a set for good hydraulic rollers or you can buy two or three sets of the cheap ones trying to get it right. Kind of a no brainer for a performance application. Especially if you’re building for somebody else.

 

[vintage chromoly]

Ed Morel makes a good product.
He is local to us and stopped by the machine shop when we bushed my Merlin block for my boat engine.

I paid 900 for a set of .903 Morel solid rollers for that engine. (Stock BBC lifter bores are .842)

You get what you pay for!

On the old mopar 440, I used Crower EDM lifters and I use brad penn in that engine.