ZR9B
Well-Known Member
Damn....looks like I ha e to do the same thing...I'm watching now.
Least $ power steering box ?
- Thread starter 417guy
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TN Mopar
Well-Known Member
I have a high lift jack and a piece of 6x6
We had to put some pressure on the k-frame with a pry bar but we had enough room
my car is a power steering car but even with the pump on we were able to lift and twist the gear box out
Did you separate the ball joints and remove the shock?
LowBikeMike
Well-Known Member
Mine is a Power steering car. Actually my entire front suspension is off as part of a front and rear suspension rebuild. I can only get about 1 1/2 of upward engine movement before the 4 speed bellhousing hits the firewall. The headers are the obstacle. As far as I am I'm only 4 bolts away from dropping the k frame.
TN Mopar
Well-Known Member
yes you have to drop the K frame
but it will drop far enough the gear box will come out forward
you should not have to touch the headers
but it will drop far enough the gear box will come out forward
you should not have to touch the headers
LowBikeMike
Well-Known Member
Did you support the engine pan with the 6x6 or have a engine hoist from the top? Yes, I'm seeing that I dont necessarily have to remove the K frame, I can just loosen the bolts enough for it to drop a few inches.
TN Mopar
Well-Known Member
I had the front of the car up on Jackstands
then I used the 6x6 under the oil pan and jacked it up
I did not force the engine up
But the weight of the engine was on the 6x6 as I dropped the k-frame
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LowBikeMike
Well-Known Member
Thanks. I've now got a plan to get this thing out.
Wietse
Well-Known Member
2 years ago i also replaced my old sloppy steering box for a FF stage 2, till today i regret that since the center slop is still there.
The box steers well and gives some solid feedback compared to the spongy stock unit but that center slop is what disappoints me and makes the car feel dangerous while driving 60+mph.
It's a shame, since i replaced everything in steering and suspension and a tight steering would complete that so much.
I am curious to see how this Borgeson steering box will work out for you and if you experience any center slop with that one, probably makes me want to change out mine as well.
The box steers well and gives some solid feedback compared to the spongy stock unit but that center slop is what disappoints me and makes the car feel dangerous while driving 60+mph.
It's a shame, since i replaced everything in steering and suspension and a tight steering would complete that so much.
I am curious to see how this Borgeson steering box will work out for you and if you experience any center slop with that one, probably makes me want to change out mine as well.
LowBikeMike
Well-Known Member
Put a lift plate on the intake, dropped the K member and box fell into my hands. Off to the rebuilder.
Curious, how did you adjust the alignment with your setup? Reason I mention is this has much to do with reducing wander...I think may be what you're mentioning about center slop. Offhand can’t recall the specs without getting my spec-sheet out; but a couple guys here know this to a tee that might chime in..
Wietse
Well-Known Member
With the center slop i mean that part where the steering wheel moves but does not action any part of the steering system, like they all have.
I did a basic alignment myself so i could drive the car to an alignment shop who used the laser bench for checking and adjusting.
It does not pull to the left or right, it is just that center part you are playing with at higher speeds to keep the car between the lines.
I did a basic alignment myself so i could drive the car to an alignment shop who used the laser bench for checking and adjusting.
It does not pull to the left or right, it is just that center part you are playing with at higher speeds to keep the car between the lines.
It was like a miracle how tight my car drove after the getting the box in and then aligned by a shop that knew what they were doing. The 1st shop ended up just setting it to OEM specs (after I had put radials on before the box). Radial specs don’t mate with OEM. But, this included new bushings and ball joints. There’s a good amount of info on the forum discussing this if you look this up; try ‘radial tire alignment’ as one of them to check out. There are other posts as well. Only odd thing I encountered a bit later was the need to install a new pitman. Two years now and all still good..
Wietse
Well-Known Member
The FirmFeel boxes are tested and set by them and are not to be adjusted according them.
Even other do not recommend tightening the adjustment screw on the steering box to remove the center slop.
From what i found about this is that the internal rack has most clearance in the center position and gets tighter towards either end.
Tightening the screw in the center position to "0" play will create a too tight rack at both ends of the steering and will damage or wear out quickly.
True or not, i never screwed around with it and left it as i received it.
The Borgeson unit should not have this issue at all.
Even other do not recommend tightening the adjustment screw on the steering box to remove the center slop.
From what i found about this is that the internal rack has most clearance in the center position and gets tighter towards either end.
Tightening the screw in the center position to "0" play will create a too tight rack at both ends of the steering and will damage or wear out quickly.
True or not, i never screwed around with it and left it as i received it.
The Borgeson unit should not have this issue at all.
I have run the FF Stage II box for 7 yrs. I like it and it's night and day better than the stock overpowered box, BUT even with the FF UCA's that got me best street/track alignment specs of +4.5 deg Caster, -0.5 deg camber and 1/16" toe-in, in a straight line she's fine, return to center through corners is great - it's just moving the steering wheel side to side in a straight line and resulting quickness of steering response still has and always will have off-center slop that doesn't engage the steering of the tires. This is inherent to the box design and cannot be removed. The Borgeson won't have this issue. Just remember if you go Borgeson (which I will likely do at some point) to use the special coupler so you don't have to cut your steering column AND add the special Borgeson/Bergman power steering pump pressure regulator - or it may be a fitting (not doing this won't be noticeable until several months/a thousand miles later, but others have reported blown seals due to mismatch of the stock power steering pump and the Borgeson box).
For alignment, make sure the toe is correct. I drove a '66 with the toe specs way off and that thing wandered all over the road and made for a white knuckle experience that I don't want to re-live.
I feel very confident and stable driving with FF stage II. It's just that sudden steering movements take more input for a response than a modern car (or what the Borgeson will give you since it's based off of a newer model Jeep box).
My experience with the FF box was horrible...
I needed it quick so as I was getting car ready for a major car show so I paid the $125 next day air shipping.. Installed it but it leaked badly, I wonder if these guys check things before shipping out. I called their tech support talked with the owner who preceded to argue with me. I requested he send another FF box but he insisted I send back the FF box at my expense, then FF will evaluate it and if a replacement is required then they will send one...
Gee thanx guys...
FF had the worst unfriendly customer support I ever experienced....
Besides my additional labor R&R expense....
Just my $0.02... ;)
I needed it quick so as I was getting car ready for a major car show so I paid the $125 next day air shipping.. Installed it but it leaked badly, I wonder if these guys check things before shipping out. I called their tech support talked with the owner who preceded to argue with me. I requested he send another FF box but he insisted I send back the FF box at my expense, then FF will evaluate it and if a replacement is required then they will send one...
Gee thanx guys...
FF had the worst unfriendly customer support I ever experienced.... Besides my additional labor R&R expense....
Just my $0.02... ;)
Wietse
Well-Known Member
Where did you find this pressure regulator?
I did not find anything on Borgeson their website or even mention a regulator.
They do offer the hose kit to connect the Borgeson box to a Saginaw pump, so according their parts the OEM Saginaw pump can be used to power this box.
Flow and pressure specs are matching according Chrysler catalogue and their specs, do you know what seals were blown as others mentioned?
If i would go for this box i am not planning on spending another $300 for a pump to replace a brand new Saginaw unit i installed not long ago if i dont' have to.
TN Mopar
Well-Known Member
I didnt use the Firm Feel Box
I used the Steer & Gear Modern feel
(For reference its the middle option between Stock and Sport)
Coupled with a complete rebuild that included stiffening plates on the LCA, new pivots, new rubber bushings, new strut bars, new Torsion bars (PST 1.03) & new shocks.
I have none of the issues that others have described
but I will say this is a Car I have driven since I was 17
It does not handle like a new modern car
but it a pleasure to drive and much improved over factory
I love driving the car
I used the Steer & Gear Modern feel
(For reference its the middle option between Stock and Sport)
Coupled with a complete rebuild that included stiffening plates on the LCA, new pivots, new rubber bushings, new strut bars, new Torsion bars (PST 1.03) & new shocks.
I have none of the issues that others have described
but I will say this is a Car I have driven since I was 17
It does not handle like a new modern car
but it a pleasure to drive and much improved over factory
I love driving the car
That's great. The Steer and Gear is also a stock rebuilder. You may not notice it, but you should also have just a little bit of off-center steering play when pointed straight ahead. With car driving straight, if you can turn your steering wheel back and forth just 1/2" to 1" each way and the steering doesn't react and the car stays straight, you have steering play. Modern cars (and the Borgeson repurposed jeep box from what I understand) reacts instantly to left or right steering input. We're splitting hairs here, but once you compare the 2 it's very noticeable. However, with that said, my FF stage II is also a pleasure to drive.
This seal leaking issue was on one of these steering FBBO forums several years ago. You'll have to search through the forums. There is a fix, but I can't recall exactly what and the issue won't likely surface immediately. I have not pulled the trigger on a Borgeson setup yet. I'm still running FF Stage II.
417guy
Well-Known Member
I have the Borgeson box and related parts to install on my roadrunner . I had installed shims in the pressure relief valve of my Saginaw pump years ago to reduce the pressure and less “assist” for a better road feel. The kit to shim the valve is available from speedway or Bergman autocraft, which is where I bought the new box, coupler, and fittings. I asked Mr. Bergman about pressure requirements of the Borgeson box, he indicated I would need to raise my pressure back to original for the Borgeson box to function correctly. Hope this helps. I know of no other “ regulator” for pressure with a Saginaw pump.
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