LED headlight upgrade, why the need for new wiring and relays???

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

My whole car is Led, together with flashers for Led.
The headlight Leds have their own drivers close to the Led-bulbs.

No relays and the am-meter barely moves with high-beam on.

To be clear, with a running healthy factory charging system, the ammeter will not register any additional charging current no matter what the headlamp current draw is. Ammeter registers battery charging/discharging only. Does not, should not, register any vehicle loads at all while in operation. Headlight relays eliminate all voltage drop in the original headlight wiring/switching circuit, any headlight system will benefit from higher voltage potential at the lamps if installed correctly.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

To be clear, with a running healthy factory charging system, the ammeter will not register any additional charging current no matter what the headlamp current draw is. Ammeter registers battery charging/discharging only. Does not, should not, register any vehicle loads at all while in operation. Headlight relays eliminate all voltage drop in the original headlight wiring/switching circuit, any headlight system will benefit from higher voltage potential at the lamps if installed correctly.

At an adequate Rpm, yes.
But the story is different at 650 rpm and Ive tested three alternators on my car.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Stock rated alternators? There are currently several high output Chrysler alternator replacements on the market today. Main advantage over stock spec’d alts is higher low rpm output.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Stock rated alternators? There are currently several high output Chrysler alternator replacements on the market today. Main advantage over stock spec’d alts is higher low rpm output.

One stock and two high output (TuffStuff and PowerMaster).

I do have a fourth to test, a "Quality Power" one.

But any tips on good low rpm output alternators is appreciated.

 

[Kern Dog]

Years back I bought one of those beautiful chrome alternators...it crapped out in a short time.
Too bad....it sure looked nice. I was not pleased.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

One stock and two high output (TuffStuff and PowerMaster).

I do have a fourth to test, a "Quality Power" one.

But any tips on good low rpm output alternators is appreciated.

I run Tuff Stuff 130amp alts, good as it gets for low RPM output. That said, I run closer to 750-800RPM on the automatics, 900RPM on the manuals.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

I run Tuff Stuff 130amp alts, good as it gets for low RPM output. That said, I run closer to 750-800RPM on the automatics, 900RPM on the manuals.

I run a Powermaster 100Amp now.
Runs perfect in park/neutral at 850 rpm.
...but cannot hold it at 650 rpm when I am in gear (727).

So, at red lights I usually put it in neutral to keep the Am meter still.

 

[Sinitro]

Do LEDs require relays? Any headlamp system will benefit from the elimination of the voltage drop in the original headlamp circuit. The resistance at every connection and switch between the alternator output stud and the lamps contributes to the total voltage drop at the lamps. Yes, LEDs use less current than any incandescent bulb system but still does draw current, will still have some voltage drop that can easily be reduced to almost nothing with relays.

Relays are cheap, pre-made kits are available and will suit some well but are not always necessary, easy enough to wire in a couple of relays.

Note that for LEDs headlights current is what effects brightness not voltage, so voltage drop is not crucial..
The Holley retrobrights draw about 25W-30W compared to about 60W for standard incandescent headlight...
Also their projected life is 5-6X longer as well..

Just my $0.02..

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Note that for LEDs headlights current is what effects brightness not voltage, so voltage drop is not crucial..
The Holley retrobrights draw about 25W-30W compared to about 60W for standard incandescent headlight...
Also their projected life is 5-6X longer as well..

Just my $0.02..

Granted, light output for LEDs is not directly affected by small voltage variations, as are incandescent lighting systems, less affected by voltage drop in the stock headlight circuit. Using Holley’s published RetroBright power 30watt spec each, and some measurements I took on my last RetroBright install-with relays, that’s still a potential of around 15-20 amps of total current, on a 4-light system, through the stock 16ga wiring, switches and related connections. The primary mentioned “benefit” for relays with LEDs is reducing that current stress down to about 300ma (two relay primaries, 150ma each) for the factory headlight circuit and related wiring/switches/connections. I’ll stand by my previous quoted comment.

 

[Sinitro]

IMHO...
The upgrade to Holley LEDs retrobrights is a good one..
I do drive @ nite frquently and the wider, brighter illumination makes its easier and safer for driving.
Should one upgrade their conventional OE headlites, switches and wiring to relays that is really up to each individual and budget...
For me and personal RoadRunner ride I like to keep things as close to OE factory as possible, and only upgrade when necessary. To me this question of upgrading is similar to Does one need a higher amperage charging system?
Hmm.. Well that really depends upon what additional electrical accessories have been added. If one has added a bigger sound/subwoofer, electric fans, electric fuel pump than obviously yes...
Note that we do have extensive experience in designing/building/delivering high-powered custom A/V systems for various show vehicles for clients supporting CES, SEMA and major print publications, many with multiple subwoofers, driven by high wattage amplifiers... So yes we do know the fundamentals..
Thanks for the interesting discussion and exchange..

Just my $0.02....

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

As I mentioned, I recently swapped out a set of E-code Hellas, running a pair of 80/100-watt H4s and a pair 100-watt H1s for a set of RetroBrights on the RR/GTX. Have yet to drive it at night however, interested to see the difference in lighting performance. The Hellas have been my go-to lighting upgrade on my old cars since back in the day. However, at 400 watts, about 30 amps total high beam current, relays and related wiring upgrades are not optional.

High output alternators and stock level vehicle loads? As mentioned above, the “benefit” is higher output available at idle engine speeds, output not available from stock sized alternators at idle. Always been a weak point for stock Chrysler alternators even with stock loads only.

High end autosound? Funny, I too have extensive experience in that field. Owned a shop in the eighties/nineties specializing in design/installation of high-end autosound/security systems in marine/high-end/exotic vehicles. Learn a lot about the design and handling of high current 12-volt systems very quickly in that business.

 

[70ChargerRT]

I run Tuff Stuff 130amp alts, good as it gets for low RPM output. That said, I run closer to 750-800RPM on the automatics, 900RPM on the manuals.

The Tuff Stuff 130 amp alt. is as good as you can get for low amp RPM alt and keeping it to look like a Chrysler Alt. but the Power Master 160 Amp which looks like an old GMC Alt puts out almost twice the low RPM output than the Tuff Stuff does. Ask me how I know. I was running the tuff stuff 130 and it didn’t have enough low idling amps to push my E-Fans and other electronics at idle. I called Tuff Stuff and they wouldn’t even tell me the idling amps, they just said it’s almost have the total amps so that would make it maybe 50-65 idling amps I’m guessing and my powermaster does the job at 100 idling amps.

 

[71RRHI]

As I mentioned, I recently swapped out a set of E-code Hellas, running a pair of 80/100-watt H4s and a pair 100-watt H1s for a set of RetroBrights on the RR/GTX. Have yet to drive it at night however, interested to see the difference in lighting performance. The Hellas have been my go-to lighting upgrade on my old cars since back in the day. However, at 400 watts, about 30 amps total high beam current, relays and related wiring upgrades are not optional.

High output alternators and stock level vehicle loads? As mentioned above, the “benefit” is higher output available at idle engine speeds, output not available from stock sized alternators at idle. Always been a weak point for stock Chrysler alternators even with stock loads only.

High end autosound? Funny, I too have extensive experience in that field. Owned a shop in the eighties/nineties specializing in design/installation of high-end autosound/security systems in marine/high-end/exotic vehicles. Learn a lot about the design and handling of high current 12-volt systems very quickly in that business.

Any updates on the retrobrights @72RoadrunnerGTX

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Any updates on the retrobrights @72RoadrunnerGTX

Haven't had the right conditions or extra time to go drive it after dark, soon however, want to see them.

 

[Sinitro]

During the last several weeks I have received multiple requests via PM for more information about my Holley Retro-brights, so below I have summarized my responses for each...
1. Pricing for Holley Retro-brights
Shop around, now that inventory supplies are widely available, some places are discounting these significantly.
2. Current draw for Holley Retro-brights
As I posted previously these draw significantly less current than an incandescent bulb, so adding a relay wiring system versus the OE wiring system has minimal advantages. I would suggest updating the OE wiring system only if additional higher current draw accessories are added such as a subwoofer amplifier, bigger sound system, electric fans, electric fuel pump, EFI.
3. How is the brightness of the Holley Retro-brights
Again as I posted previously for LEDs, current is more pertinent than voltage. So the Holley Retro-brights have plenty of brightness just using the OE wiring system provided it is in good, operating condition.
4. Wiring options
Packed with the Holley Retro-brights is an adapter that permits the dual element LED to be just connected for High beam, however note now Holley has a single High beam only option available. In my install, I fabricated a Y connector using ceramic sockets (available from Amazon) so I have (4) low or (4) high beams. Some users thought having (4) beams ON simultaneously was too much brightness but just the opposite is true the Holley Retro-brights have a nice balanced broad, light dispersion that is not overpowering. So the user has some choices for his respective install of the Holley Retro-brights.
5. Competition product to Holley Retro-brights
Yes, there is lower priced competition... But again buying these often they require modifying the mounting bucket. Also if down the road (1) of the lower priced competition craps out.... How EZ is to find a replacement? But, note that since Holley is a major brand and the Retro-brights are sold in multiple places finding a replacement is an EZ task.

Summary, personal background
Some have asked about this.. Note that I had my own retail auto-sound shop for many years and designed/built custom high end mobile audio/video systems in demo vehicles for major trade clients, publications and trades show including CES, SEMA and major Sound-Offs. For the last 23 years I was Sr.Product Marketing/Development Manager for the largest automotive aftermarket and OE supplier, supporting the North America and global markets designing/sourcing auto info-tainment hardware & software components used in about 65% of all new automotive brand vehicles sold today.

Just my $0.02...

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Any updates on the retrobrights @72RoadrunnerGTX

Following up, finally had an opportunity to dive the RetroBrights. Performed well but a bit disappointed frankly, just not the same lighting performance over-all as the high wattage Hella E-codes they replaced. Looks like I’ll be putting the Hellas back in. The Retrobrights are a good upgrade if not wanting modify wiring to support higher amperage lighting, with the substantial cost difference between these LEDS and the Hellas E-codes, can’t recommend them as a substitute.

 

[71RRHI]

Following up, finally had an opportunity to dive the RetroBrights. Performed well but a bit disappointed frankly, just not the same lighting performance over-all as the high wattage Hella E-codes they replaced. Looks like I’ll be putting the Hellas back in. The Retrobrights are a good upgrade if not wanting modify wiring to support higher amperage lighting, with the substantial cost difference between these LEDS and the Hellas E-codes, can’t recommend them as a substitute. Will have a set RetroBrights available soon.

Thanks for the update. I already ordered and received a set of retro brites. Didn't get chance to install them yet. Since I'm going from stock lights, to the retrobrights hopefully they will be a enough improvement to make it worth while.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Thanks for the update. I already ordered and received a set of retro brites. Didn't get chance to install them yet. Since I'm going from stock lights, to the retrobrights hopefully they will be a enough improvement to make it worth while.

To be clear, huge improvement over the original sealed beams or even later halogen sealed beams for sure, especially if wiring upgrades are not required.

 

[71RRHI]

Well if I like them, I might be interested in buying the set your going to take out.

 

[mrmolding]

Following up, finally had an opportunity to dive the RetroBrights. Performed well but a bit disappointed frankly, just not the same lighting performance over-all as the high wattage Hella E-codes they replaced. Looks like I’ll be putting the Hellas back in. The Retrobrights are a good upgrade if not wanting modify wiring to support higher amperage lighting, with the substantial cost difference between these LEDS and the Hellas E-codes, can’t recommend them as a substitute. Will have a set RetroBrights available soon.

What color temp did you get for the RetroBrights? Not sure if you mentioned it in an earlier post.