• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

My First build

Well I would like to get this thread going again! It was a great summer, but it didn't include much shop time. I have spent a great deal of time slowly tearing down this motor and have a much better idea of the inner workings. I have come up with a plan that I would like to run by all of you for opinions. The recipe is as follows:
440 Source 512 stroker kit
Bore 4.36
Stroke 4.250
Piston 27cc dish (1.485 compression height)
Rods 7.100
Comp Cams Hydraulic Roller Retrofit .549/.544 lift and 242 intake and 248 exhaust @.050
Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake
Trick Flow 240 heads 78cc
I would like to see a 10.5 : 1 compression ratio.
The car is an automatic with a 2000 stall and 3.55 gear ratio. I am not opposed to changing either of these.
I have calculated the deck height by measuring the diameter of the crankshaft bore then dividing in half, then using a 12 inch caliper from the deck to the crankshaft bore.
Deck height as it sits 10.742.
With the above parts: rod + 1/2 stroke + comp height + .018 in the hole = 10.720. Is this correct? Seems like a lot to mill off the deck.
Using the Summit racing compression calculator I came up with about 9.9 :1. Not quite where I want to be. This is with an .039 gasket.
Give me your thoughts and suggestions. Try to be gentle, my head hurts from all the math!!

Thanks
 
Your math is fine....need to have it decked .032 if your number is right to acheive 0 deck. Then to achieve 10.5:1 with a 27cc dish you will have to shave your heads so they are closer to 73 cc. Have you figured your dynamic compression with that cam?

The blueprinted number is 10.725 ultimately what only matters is your deck height and the combination to get the compression and quench you desire. Buts it's really no big deal imo to have it decked to achieve 0 deck.... a rb has such a tall deck that you will hardly notice .030 taken off when you assemble it. Not at all uncommon. The only other option to get it to 10.5 w your combination is a different piston. Probably a custom one.

Buy a lupo dynamic 9 1/2 converter is a addition I would add to your combo and keep the 3.55s. When it comes to cams we really like working with Bullet and do custom cams. I have been impressed with their assistance.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the reply. Good info. I have not checked dynamic compression. I will research how to do it and report back. I'm kinda intimidated by having the heads machined. I am not married to 440 source, any other combos out there that would achieve my goals?
 
Last edited:
the 27cc pistons will be about 9.9:1 compression.
the 17 cc pistons are closer to what you want for compression, but I don't see a listing for the 4.360" bore. Call them and ask if they can order some in that bore size?
 
That was my next step. I will report back. I have a bunch of pics of tear down, would there be any value in posting them?
 
With 10.5 compression at 1000ft elevation your combos dynamic compression 7.68... Using Wallace racing's calculater.
It should run on premium. It's a tad high on the compression for pump gas in the midwest 7-7.5 with a roller cam and aluminum heads is the comfortable dcr number we've been using. But with a good tune you can get by running a little higher dcr. Others could share there opinion there.
Pictures of the process are always good to see. Would love to see a picture of the GTX.
 
Last edited:
IMG_0329.JPG
 
If this is just a pump gas street car, the lower compression 9.9:1 is fine, and you don't have to worry about the octane of the fuel as much.
Just built a 505 near the same, 27cc dish pistons, Zero deck block, Cometic 0.040" head gaskets in the smaller 4.350" bore size.
Same Trick flow heads, and the recommended HS rocker arms. Cam is a Luniti Solid Roller. I don't see it on their web site, but it was around 243/248 @ 0.050" duration as I recall?, and around 0.600" lift with 1.6:1 rocker arms. A real mild combination with 505".
Original plan was to go with EFI, but currently has a 770 Avenger Holley that is a bit small for the engine. Going to swap on a 1,000 cfm Holley HP to see how it likes it, because I have it sitting in the garage, so no $$$ to try it out.
 
sure post away
can you bush the rods +035 long? (or whatever?)
get the rods with the bushings unbored?
with .028 Mr Gasket? what's the compression piston down .005
going from 10 to 11 does not give you that much hp increase unless you are heads up racing and require much better tune and fuel and when they carbon up later...
recommend you keep the 27cc pistons .005-.010(max) down
it does make a difference in your cam
work on getting a full charge of intake
lots of vendors - ask Scat no Eagle If you are really going to rev it up find a kit with Molner rods or Crower or Carrillo does CP-carillo have your kit?
If mostly street the rods in the kit (not Eagle) are fine

EDIT AND RANT there seems to be a "who has the biggest dick" contest going on as far as specs on HR cams
see
https://www.compcams.com/lobe-catalog page 23- Extreme energy XFI cams and read the description at the top of the page
this chevy series is what comp is using for Mopars- does it match your build?
Does Hughes choice match your build and usage?
In any case light valves and retainers and beehives???
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
You guys are amazing. Give me a couple days to absorb and research.
 
https://www.scatcrankshafts.com/? from enginelabs newsletter today
just a link but I know the owner- excellent guy and products
also
lots of threads on HR success and not so good
here's one active now
https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/sbm-roller-lifter-choice.447779/
AFIK all HR retrofit kits are made by one of the Johnson tappet companies with tiny .700 wheel - please prove me wrong
IMHO a HR can be made to work only if light valve train, perfect geometry and correct springs shimmed to the proper height and oil choice
also get the stiffest pushrods you can fit even if you have to grind some
and the longest- use cup style adjusters and oil through the pushrod
talk to B3 and RockerArmSpecialists (whatever it is this year)
as to what cam I would trust our crower mopar user dart19666 and
Mike Jones http://jonescams.com/road-race/
to give me a straight shot what works in a BBM (add others guys)
to really get the right cam get your head flows or estimate from .050 up and sorta choose a header- step might be best
you can use PIPEMAX to help or I can give you the names of some good header guys I do know you do not want a large collector- but long
reminisce
When we were running our Javelin we were the first or one of the first to run an X pipe- thanks Jere Stahl RIP
it sounded and we caught the Dodge team looking under the car
we said the change in sound was from the exhaust
It was actually the roller cam 427 motor
Thanks to Smokey for the art of diversion...
 
Green72 said:
Well I would like to get this thread going again! It was a great summer, but it didn't include much shop time. I have spent a great deal of time slowly tearing down this motor and have a much better idea of the inner workings. I have come up with a plan that I would like to run by all of you for opinions. The recipe is as follows:
440 Source 512 stroker kit
Bore 4.36
Stroke 4.250
Piston 27cc dish (1.485 compression height)
Rods 7.100
Comp Cams Hydraulic Roller Retrofit .549/.544 lift and 242 intake and 248 exhaust @.050
Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake
Trick Flow 240 heads 78cc
I would like to see a 10.5 : 1 compression ratio.
The car is an automatic with a 2000 stall and 3.55 gear ratio. I am not opposed to changing either of these.
I have calculated the deck height by measuring the diameter of the crankshaft bore then dividing in half, then using a 12 inch caliper from the deck to the crankshaft bore.
Deck height as it sits 10.742.
With the above parts: rod + 1/2 stroke + comp height + .018 in the hole = 10.720. Is this correct? Seems like a lot to mill off the deck.
Using the Summit racing compression calculator I came up with about 9.9 :1. Not quite where I want to be. This is with an .039 gasket.
Give me your thoughts and suggestions. Try to be gentle, my head hurts from all the math!!

Thanks
Click to expand...
My 2 cents. I like your choices. I don't remember what your goals are though. The HR debate has and will continue to rage on. Just do your research and decide for yourself. But for a mild street deal, your cam numbers look fine.

Your cam choice and the 9.9:1 will leave some power on the table from the way I would build it for myself. But for a lot of folks it is perfect. It will be a no fuss, no muss, close the hood and go anywhere and use probably any gas deal. Giving up some power may well be worth it. You'll be able to keep your converter and gear too.

Keeping the same gear and converter but more power: Put a street solid roller in it with the same duration numbers, add 1.6 rockers, and bump up the compression to 10.5:1 and it will make more power. But your valve train will be worked a lot harder, you'll be under the hood more, and if you're near sea level you might have detonation issues even with 92 octane.
 
Guess your using the Option1 Valve springs? 1.550" diameter, 420 lb/in rate. That should work fine with the Hydraulic Roller cam.
My Convertible has a 505" stroker with Stealth Heads, 10.3:1 compression (17cc dish pistons), and the ones size smaller Comp XE Hydraulic roller cam 236/242 @ 0.050".
I built it as a cruser, EFI, 5-speed OD trans and such. Have the rev-limit set to 6,000 RPM, so I never really tried spinning the engine too hard with the Hydraulic Roller setup. I am using the ISKY 8005A valve springs, I think they are slightly lighter, 400 lb/in rate springs.
With my smaller cam, higher compression and stealth heads I do have to be careful with the timing advance and fuel octane on hot days, or maybe I just got some junk gas on the hot day I noticed some light pinging?
Anyhow, when I built the Trick Flow headed 505, with the 27cc pistons and small solid roller cam, it was more of a drive it anywhere, use any gas, and don't worry about the rev limit (car has no RPM limiter) type deal using the Higher Rate Option2 Spring package with Ti retainers.
 
Ok so this is where I'm at for the rotating assembly, basically right where I started.
440 Source 512 kit
4.36 bore
4.250 stroke
27cc dished piston
7.100 rod
trick flow 240's 78cc
.028 head gasket
If i zero deck this set up I will be right at 10.3:1
I had no idea that talking about cams was worse than politics. Just kidding keep the info coming. With the above mentioned HR the dynamic compression ratio is 6.52:1. What are your thoughts on this? I am seriously considering a solid roller also. Why isn't dynamic compression talked about more? It seems to me that it is just as if not more important than static.
So here is another can of worms to open. 440 source now has a light weight crank shaft option. What are the advantages and disadvantages of this option?
Block goes to the machine shop this week. Let me know if I am screwing anything up!!!
 
Zero deck and the TF240 leaves too little piston to head clearance with the 0.028 gasket, IMO.
 
Imo need .040 for piston to head clearance on a closed chamber with steel rods. Using a .028 gasket the piston needs .012 down.

What valve closing abdc did you use to get 6.5 for your dcr? 6.5 is really low for 10.3.

We have one engine with a bullet HR with crower solid roller lifters run with a very tight lash. It's my understanding not every hr can do that.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

joe68
FOR SALE 440 cast crank, rods and balancer
Replies
0
Views
320
joe68
joe68
Dakotaacres
Old school build vs a stroker build
2
Replies
33
Views
4K
Cojohnso1
Cojohnso1
TorRed
Help Me Complete My 383 Engine Build
2
Replies
22
Views
2K
1KoolBee
1KoolBee
Bdub
Help with identifying what the engine stamps mean
Replies
11
Views
785
Jerry Hall
Jerry Hall
MoparMadman
Compression calculation
Replies
17
Views
952
MoparMadman
MoparMadman
Auto Transport Service
Back
Top