Zeppelin264
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Umm. Your running a hydro cam and you have valve lash? Thats not good.
New 440 problem - help please!
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Zeppelin264
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You are supposed to set a pre load to the lifter with those cams. You dont set valve lash.
I ran adjustable rocker arms for this very reason, but still had to have custom pushrods made.
I ran adjustable rocker arms for this very reason, but still had to have custom pushrods made.
FogHead
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Hmmm... time for rockers. Ouch. What about the lifters not bleeding down? Completely incompressable
Zeppelin264
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You can order custom push rods. Have to figure out your measurements. Or do both. I did the old school Crane Iron Ductile rockers and they are awesome, if you can find a set they should be fairly cheap.
Do they compress when you spin the motor by hand? If the motor is running then they have to be compressing.
FogHead
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That I don't know/can't tell. I'll throw it out out there - anyone have an extra set of iron rockers they don't need? Lol
Just really odd that they got noisy just recently
funknut
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Some lifters can be dissassembled to see if the innards are working. You should be able to depress the cup and feel the spring.
Are you sure they are not bleeding down? Sounds more like they are not pumping up if you now have slop in the valvetrain.
It might be worth taking one apart to see what's wrong.
Are you sure they are not bleeding down? Sounds more like they are not pumping up if you now have slop in the valvetrain.
It might be worth taking one apart to see what's wrong.
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No, stock type lifters do not bleed down.
Can you depress by hand any of the rocker/pushrods (collapsing a lifter) while it's just sitting there quietly?
Can you depress by hand any of the rocker/pushrods (collapsing a lifter) while it's just sitting there quietly?
FogHead
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Negative. Took one apart and didn't see anything wrong. I'm now thinking that new rockers and pushrods are likely what are needed.
FogHead
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The motor may have just gone through an aggressive heat cycling which made the need for adjustable rockers apparent
wagonman
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Had kinda the same issue with my 440. All was good during break in and for the first few hundred miles then clackty ckack on start up. Sounded like it was coming from # 8 cylinder. Once warmed it was all but gone but still a slight noise. I pulled the suspect lifters and took them apart, nothing obvious. Now this valve train has the Comp XE268h-10 cam and lifter package with Isky ductile rocker and custom Smith bros push rods. I talked to my engine buidler and he advised to tighten up the preload by 1/4 turn and see what happens. I did and no help. The trick was switching to Lucas hot rod oil and a Hi pressure spring in the stock pump. Still has a wee bit of noise cold but made the trip to Reno and back with no issues,and that was cruising at 75 with bursts to 90. I called Comp and asked about their lifters having problems, never heard of it they said. Well I beg to differ as there are lots of posts on the quality of their lifters. Anyhow give the oil a shot, sounds like you already have the HV-HP pump covered. Oh yeah these were the Hi-energy lifters.
FogHead
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Awesome info! Spoke to an old school builder of motors. Issue could be multifold. Suggested I switch to 20w-50 hot rod oil and drop in a set of adjustable pushrods. Aftermarket stainless steel valve heights, thicker than stock head gasket, all work to physically raise the valve train higher than the stock rocker arms and pushrods can accommodate. it sounds as if I have a reasonably priced solution in my sights. If anyone has anything to add that may point out an error in this thinking please please contribute!
oldbee
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Well it's been a long time, but I hate adj pushrods, I'd rather go with adj rockers, IMHO. I don't think oil viscosity makes all that much diff unless you've got crazy bearing clearances.
wagonman
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FWIW I would not go with adjustable push rods. Get a checking adj rod,measure and order the correct lenght rods from any number of suppliers ( Smith Bros for me as they are close with a 24hr turnaround) . Some ductile rockers like Isky, Crane, Erson on The Bay and call it good. Seems like the harder I run it the less noisy it is. Took it out in the rain today and was easy to spin it and RPM it. Seemed to like it, no noise when I got home= happy camper.
wagonman
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Beat me to it Bee.
How do you achieve a 0.040" deck height in a cylinder with a normal 0.072" to 0.101" deck height with stock flat top pistons. You said that you used KB pistons, and I can say that they are flat tops with pop up domes. You also said that the heads or block were milled? With all of the other work and parts used, they would have been milled if I built your motor. The big issue is using domed pistons with closed chamber heads. depending where you measure the 0.040", and how thick the head gaskets are, possibly the pistons are hitting the heads. Not really sure which pistons you might have used, but KB states that the quench domes have to be milled off for closed chamber heads.
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FogHead
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.040 down the bore kb flat top cast. Heads nor block milled. Nothing making contact inside chambers. The thought of adjustable rods isn't my idea of the best solution, just the most affordable "correct-ish" solution right now. $700-$1000 isn't in my budget for this year.
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Ok, IF there are no collapsed lifters (you checked them all, right?) and IF the cam isn't damaged, then get a pushrod length checker tool (they're cheap and readily available from places like Summit and Jegs) and measure for the proper length pushrods.
If you'll get the proper length pushrods in the engine, you won't need adjustable anythings.
If you'll get the proper length pushrods in the engine, you won't need adjustable anythings.
FogHead
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That sounds like a plan... and likely cheaper lol! How much preload should there be on the lifter anyway?
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Oh man, you're going to get a lot of opinions on that one.
I'd confer with the cam manufacturer on their recommendation, but the consensus when I was going through all this seemed to be anywhere from .020 to .050.
FogHead
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Whether .020 or .050, it'll be a LOT more than the rods had before.
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