New 440 problem - help please!

[FogHead]

Ok all.... here's my issue (and oddly) also my first post.

1978 440 block with forged crank, internally balanced, stock rods with ARP bolts, KB pistons set at 40 thou deck height, block bored 30 over, crank ground 10 thou under, iron heads (516) with new valves and Hughes springs, mild porting, 3 angle valve job, stock rockers and shafts, Comp cams 21-223-4 (.477 int, .480 exh), high pressure melling pump, 6 quart pan with windage tray, performer rpm intake, 650 quick fuel dp carb.

Now for the problem...

Motor break in was a little iffy as there were some ignition issues, but after sorted, motor was run up with Brad Penn 30wt break in oil (1800-2700rpm varying) until ignition caused a shut down at about 20 minutes. Hopefully this was enough for the cam, but I have doubts. Now running Valvoline 10w-30 valvoline racing oil. Gentle running, varying engine rpm, not exceeding 4000 rpm for about 850-900 miles. Leaned on it fairly hard yesterday (4500-5000 and pretty much floored) and afterward, EVERY LIFTER was clattering loudly for quite some time. Engine temp went up from it's normal cold running temp to a little higher range, but still nowhere near to overheating. When starting from cold now, just about every lifter clatters it seems, and throttle response is instantaneous. Becomes slightly quieter as rpms increase, oil pressure is fine @65-70 cold, no signs of metallic crap in oil from dipstick.

What in the hell did I do???? Is this going to be a total tear down to replace cam, lifters, bearings, etc????

 

[WileERobby]

Did you install the rocker shafts correctly ?

 

[FogHead]

Did you install the rocker shafts correctly ?

I torqued them down to the spec listed... 20 ft/lbs if I recall. All were pointing in the correct direction as well. Could I have bottomed the retainers on the guides and bent pushrods when the lifters pumped up at revs?

 

[not so famous bob]

Did you install the rocker shafts correctly ?

"SET AT .040 DECK HEIGHTH" ? What head gaskets and heads ? Did u reset the valves ?

 

[FogHead]

"SET AT .040 DECK HEIGHTH" ? What head gaskets and heads ? Did u reset the valves ?

.040 down the bores for piston crown. Standard Fel pro. Reset? Please explain (full 3 angle valve job was done if that's what you mean). This is a motor that was built by another individual, but a fellow that has done many of these motors over the years (15-20 or so).

 

[moparedtn]

Having just danced this dance a couple times, I offer two questions:
1. How much decking was done to block and/or heads? Did anyone measure to get the correct pushrod lengths afterwards?
2. Is the oil you are using sufficiently loaded with zinc (ZDDP)? This is critical with these hydraulic flat tappet cams. No zinc = wiped cam (with accompanying rickety valvetrain).

I sincerely hope this isn't the case with yours.

 

[FogHead]

Having just danced this dance a couple times, I offer two questions:
1. How much decking was done to block and/or heads? Did anyone measure to get the correct pushrod lengths afterwards?
2. Is the oil you are using sufficiently loaded with zinc (ZDDP)? This is critical with these hydraulic flat tappet cams. No zinc = wiped cam (with accompanying rickety valvetrain).

I sincerely hope this isn't the case with yours.

Block remains at stock deck - same with heads. Pushrod length... um... no. Dayam. Compression is about 9.3:1. The racing oil and all oil since rebuild has advertised high zddp content.

Dayam is it clattery on startup. I'm thinking my first step will be to check some pushrods this fine sunday morning. >_<

 

[Glenwood]

I'd pull the covers and check everything for looseness, etc.

 

[FogHead]

I'd pull the covers and check everything for looseness, etc.

That sounds like a plan... I'm thinking that the guides might be a bit too tall for the lift of the cam. Ugh this could suck.

 

[Glenwood]

I think some chatter is normal but you have to make sure the rockers are getting enough oil. Did you prime the engine oil prior to cam breakin?

 

[FogHead]

I think some chatter is normal but you have to make sure the rockers are getting enough oil. Did you prime the engine oil prior to cam breakin?

Yes. Used a priming shaft with my drill. Rotated engine by hand through several complete rotations while doing this. Really kicked my drill's ***.

Actually, the cam I'm using required the guides to be trimmed on another set of heads that were not used on this motor. I changed the cam from what was in it originally - the motor was originally built for a heavy tow vehicle.

 

[Glenwood]

I'd take a close look at the rocker assembly for good oil lubrication and either turn the motor over with the covers off or prime it again to verify. You are probably hearing the rockers instead of the lifters. Bent rods or collapsed lifters would probably cause poor running issues.
My hyd cam is .494In & .513Ex with stock rods and rockers. Probably on the edge for stamped rockers but I've checked several times and will check again as I approach the 500 mile beak-in marker and check everything again when changing the oil. My cam break-in was also 20 minutes.

 

[FogHead]

I'd take a close look at the rocker assembly for good oil lubrication and either turn the motor over with the covers off or prime it again to verify. You are probably hearing the rockers instead of the lifters. Bent rods or collapsed lifters would probably cause poor running issues.
My hyd cam is .494In & .513Ex with stock rods and rockers. Probably on the edge for stamped rockers but I've checked several times and will check again as I approach the 500 mile beak-in marker and check everything again when changing the oil. My cam break-in was also 20 minutes.

The noise is coming from deep inside the motor when using the ol' screwdriver to the ear trick. Valve covers will be off in about 30 minutes to see if anything insane pops out at me. This is my first 440 and wow are these quite a bit different from Fords n bowtie stuff.

 

[FogHead]

Also just want to say thanks to all who've posted help... keep it coming!

 

[FogHead]

Would the retainers bottoming on the guides collapse lifters as well as possibly bending pushrods?

 

[black64]

What lifters are you using? Did your engine guy happen to put Rhoads lifters in you engine? They bleed down at idle and are a bit noisey.

 

[FogHead]

I'm using the comp lifters that came with the cam in the kit. Part 822-16. they were relatively quiet until yesterday. Now they are ALL noisy. Strange.

 

[FogHead]

One valve cover off. Lots of oil everywhere. Rocker shafts all tight. Clearance between rocker tip and valve is a couple thou. Pulled a couple lifters and they still look new. All pushrods straight. Hmph...

 

[FogHead]

Might I just need adjustable rockers to take up the valvetrain slack? This last run was the hottest the motor got since rebuild. maybe just all expanded and got noisy? Maybe oil too thin?

 

[FogHead]

Just checked a random lifter - the cup can't be pushed down at all even with a lot of downward pressure. Odd?