Steering is a nightmare...

[Kern Dog]

How are your welding skills?
These cars used a sturdy steel crossmember that was used to support the engine and front suspension & steering. It is referred to as a K member because it looks like the capital letter K. They can benefit from adding some reinforcements. They were built in an era when handling wasn't such a priority as it is today. The steering box is bolted to mounts on the K member that can flex and move around, making steering feel loose or sloppy. I'l admit that welding in reinforcements here is not a simple task but it is something I do on every car that I plan to keep. With the steering box solidly mounted in a reinforced K member, MORE of your steering wheel input makes it to the tire.
Another way of looking at it is to envision a scenerio where every component from the steering wheel to the tire has some amount of slop to it. The steering wheel can be turned back and forth over a quarter turn but because of the slop, the tires don't turn at all. As you replace worn parts, eventually the steering wheel can be turned LESS to get the tires to react because the slop is eliminated by replacing everything that is worn out.

 

[70chall440]

Classic Industries sells remanufactured boxes for $169 and while it might better than what you have it might not be a great deal. There are other options but if money is tight (which I suspect it is), then look at adjusting yours, rebuilding the front end and see where you are.

 

[Jerry Hall]

Current prices at Firm Feel are $399 for stage 1, 2, or 3. Pay an alignment shop to check if other parts or bushings are needed. I find that the lower control arm bushings are the first to go. Ball joints and tie rod ends not so much as long as the rubbers are good and they are greased. Upper control arm bushings would also need to be checked and replaced as needed.

 

[Kern Dog]

I would strongly advise AGAINST any rebuild that is under $300. Sad to say but the only 2 reputable steering box rebuilders are Firm Feel Inc in Washington state and Steer and Gear in some other state.
I have a Firm Feel stage 3 unit I installed in 2002. It is the best factory style steering box you can get.
IF you are swimming in cash, there is another way to go....Borgeson steering makes an aftermarket steering box that is lighter, smaller and more precise than the factory steering units. It is NOT a cheap swap. You would be spending up to $900 to do the Borgeson but it seems the ones that have made the swap are very happy with it.

 

[Mason]

How are your welding skills?
These cars used a sturdy steel crossmember that was used to support the engine and front suspension & steering. It is referred to as a K member because it looks like the capital letter K. They can benefit from adding some reinforcements. They were built in an era when handling wasn't such a priority as it is today. The steering box is bolted to mounts on the K member that can flex and move around, making steering feel loose or sloppy. I'l admit that welding in reinforcements here is not a simple task but it is something I do on every car that I plan to keep. With the steering box solidly mounted in a reinforced K member, MORE of your steering wheel input makes it to the tire.
Another way of looking at it is to envision a scenerio where every component from the steering wheel to the tire has some amount of slop to it. The steering wheel can be turned back and forth over a quarter turn but because of the slop, the tires don't turn at all. As you replace worn parts, eventually the steering wheel can be turned LESS to get the tires to react because the slop is eliminated by replacing everything that is worn out.

I'm not too bad with a welder but my welder just gave out after making my exhaust lol I'll have to grab a new one, it was really old. But i do get what you're saying and I think I might go and do that if I can't find a better deal for these steering box replacements. I'd rather have a small difference than none at all

 

[Kern Dog]

This is the K member:

The triangle metal file is pointing where reinforcement plates filled in where the factory left it open.

The two threaded holes are 2 of the 3 steering box mounting holes.
In a stock unmodified car with wide tires, you can let the car run and have a helper move the steering side to side. While the wheels are turning, you can look under the hood at the steering box move side to side as well because the stock steering box mounting brackets flex. With skinny tires they won't move as much but with wider tires they will. Welding in the reinforcements really cuts down on flexing here and improves steering precision.

 

[Mason]

I would strongly advise AGAINST any rebuild that is under $300. Sad to say but the only 2 reputable steering box rebuilders are Firm Feel Inc in Washington state and Steer and Gear in some other state.
I have a Firm Feel stage 3 unit I installed in 2002. It is the best factory style steering box you can get.
IF you are swimming in cash, there is another way to go....Borgeson steering makes an aftermarket steering box that is lighter, smaller and more precise than the factory steering units. It is NOT a cheap swap. You would be spending up to $900 to do the Borgeson but it seems the ones that have made the swap are very happy with it.

Yeah I am on the Firm Feel site right now looking at their prices and it's a high price but I might go and do it. It's only a one time payment haha. I just have a few other things on my mind to do on my car and I'd rather not blow it all on one place but I just might...

 

[Kern Dog]

Open area:

 

[Mason]

Current prices at Firm Feel are $399 for stage 1, 2, or 3. Pay an alignment shop to check if other parts or bushings are needed. I find that the lower control arm bushings are the first to go. Ball joints and tie rod ends not so much as long as the rubbers are good and they are greased. Upper control arm bushings would also need to be checked and replaced as needed.

Yeah they are a pretty penny for sure, do you think I'm better off just replacing all the bushings? For the rubber in the tie rods and ball joints, they have been sitting caked in mud for decades, just wondering if they were a concern for replacement since they have been in such poor conditions

 

[66 Sat]

Mate, I honestly feel you should start with the bushes and ball joints and don't touch the steering box until the rest of it is done. Take it to an old school reputable suspension shop and get their opinion on the condition of them and which need changing first. I would think lower control arm bushes will probably need changing as priority No. 1, they take a hammering. I forgot to mention I changed the strut rods and bushes too (and boxed in the lower control arm itself), but let's not get ahead of ourselves. There's no point in spending all your money on a new or rebuilt steering box until you've diagnosed the main issues and fixed them first. The good thing is as Kern Dog said you can do it all yourself, you might need help pressing in the lower control arm bush but a big hammer and a pickle fork will remove everything and it all goes back together quite easily.

 

[Kern Dog]

The bushings are surely worn out. You would need them to be replaced anyway.

 

[Mason]

This is the K member:
View attachment 887499

The triangle metal file is pointing where reinforcement plates filled in where the factory left it open.

View attachment 887500

The two threaded holes are 2 of the 3 steering box mounting holes.
In a stock unmodified car with wide tires, you can let the car run and have a helper move the steering side to side. While the wheels are turning, you can look under the hood at the steering box move side to side as well because the stock steering box mounting brackets flex. With skinny tires they won't move as much but with wider tires they will. Welding in the reinforcements really cuts down on flexing here and improves steering precision.

That's a genius little idea you got there, doesn't seem like too hard of a job considering the other junk I've had to deal with on this car...thanks for the tip! Do you do this to all your cars?

 

[Mason]

Y

Classic Industries sells remanufactured boxes for $169 and while it might better than what you have it might not be a great deal. There are other options but if money is tight (which I suspect it is), then look at adjusting yours, rebuilding the front end and see where you are.

Yeah money is kind of tight at the moment but I'm doing my best with what I got, thanks for the help man I appreciate it

 

[Mason]

Mate, I honestly feel you should start with the bushes and ball joints and don't touch the steering box until the rest of it is done. Take it to an old school reputable suspension shop and get their opinion on the condition of them and which need changing first. I would think lower control arm bushes will probably need changing as priority No. 1, they take a hammering. I forgot to mention I changed the strut rods and bushes too (and boxed in the lower control arm itself), but let's not get ahead of ourselves. There's no point in spending all your money on a new or rebuilt steering box until you've diagnosed the main issues and fixed them first. The good thing is as Kern Dog said you can do it all yourself, you might need help pressing in the lower control arm bush but a big hammer and a pickle fork will remove everything and it all goes back together quite easily.

Yeah welding up the box sounds like a nice idea for the time being before I go blowing my money on a new one. I definitely am gonna replace the bushings and ball joints...do you think I should go on ahead and get strut rods too?

 

[66 Sat]

You might not need strut rods but the bushes will need replacing and might not come with the PST kit. You need them in good condition as they form part of the front end triangulation (with the lower control arm). My strut rods were bent so I bought some sturdier ones from Mancini Racing.

 

[Mason]

You might not need strut rods but the bushes will need replacing and might not come with the PST kit. You need them in good condition as they form part of the front end triangulation (with the lower control arm). My strut rods were bent so I bought some sturdier ones from Mancini Racing.

Okay that makes sense why they would be affecting a large part of my control with maneuvering this boat of a car haha. I appreciate the help and advice man!

 

[Kern Dog]

That's a genius little idea you got there, doesn't seem like too hard of a job considering the other junk I've had to deal with on this car...thanks for the tip! Do you do this to all your cars?

I have done it 4 or 5 times. I did it for this car:

This car:

This car:

My beater '67 Dart:

AND my keeper:

 

[Mason]

I have done it 4 or 5 times. I did it for this car:
View attachment 887502

This car:

View attachment 887503
This car:
View attachment 887504 View attachment 887505
My beater '67 Dart:
View attachment 887506
AND my keeper:
View attachment 887507 View attachment 887508

Wow those are some mean looking mopars, I'll have to buy a new welder and try to work my magic. I'm hoping it will help with a good bit of my slop.

 

[Kern Dog]

I just welded in a new front structure to this car:

And it too will get a welded and reinforced K member. The cost is minimal but the gains are huge.

 

[R413]

Mason, I feel you don’t have the right answer just yet. This car has 56,000 miles, it may just have a couple bad parts or something falling apart. I doubt the whole thing is “shredded” unless this was a dukes backup car.

First thing - you said you have power steering, is the belt on and the fluid full?

Get a helper and check this car out. One person moves the steering wheel back an forth about 6”, the other person LOOKS at the parts to find where the slop is. Have the engine running if it is power steering. Chock the wheels and have the helper sitting in the car with foot on the brake. lay under the car and look at every moving joint and piece. Front wheels need to be on the ground to put a load on the steering. If it drives that loose you should find a problem pretty easily.

*Yes check all 3 of the steering box bolts and make sure they are tight.
*Look at the steering coupler between the box and column and make sure it is tight, not clunking and loose.
*The drag link should only move side to side, never up and down when changing from left to right steering input. Bad idler arm.
*Look at the tie rods and idler & pitman arm. Where the stud comes out of the joint should be no side to side play.
*look at the bushings and see if rubber is hanging out of them, or if the rubber is gone. They will probably look cracked, they are 50 years old, but that doesn’t mean it’s the root of the loose steering.

Note, if you have power steering the wheel will be very loose with lots of play with the engine off, and be tighter with the engine running.

Don’t just assume you need to buy all these trick parts to have you car drive good.

Find out what is WRONG with the car. Just like your huge transmission problem, it was an EASY fix.