The inside of a 440-25 cross ram intake

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  1. dvw

    dvw Well-Known Member

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    There has been discussion on the Weiand 6 brl, Factory cross ram, and the Indy cross ram. For those who haven't seen the inside of the Indy here are some pics. Some are modified to reduce plenum size. I've always run them untouched. They will support enough flow to make over 900hp. The runners have a significant amount of taper. My feeling is to keep the airspeed up. The only dyno test I made was on a 12.5-1 498 with untouched Indy -1 heads. Compared to a factory cross ram the 440-25 made 60 more hp. We started the pull at 4000. It lost nothing in torque.
    Doug

    FB_IMG_1584451329458.jpg 20200715_184134.jpg 20200715_184119.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2021
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    • dvw

      dvw Well-Known Member

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      Here is one modified to reduce plenum. to be honest no one showed much improvement from this mod.
      Doug 5594591-INDYEPOXYINSERTS008.JPG
       
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      • dvw

        dvw Well-Known Member

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        Hers another modified one. This one on B-1 heads
        Doug
        dan jones 440-25 intake.jpg
        dan jones 440-25 intake 1.jpg
         
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        • dvw

          dvw Well-Known Member

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          Now compare to the Weiand.
          Doug

          weiand 6brl 2.jpg

          weiand 6brl.jpg
           
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          • Lefty71

            Lefty71 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            Looks like a REAL race piece compared to the Weiand. Thx for sharing.
             
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            • 68Dart470

              68Dart470 Active Member

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              Wow, what a difference. Couldn't pay me to put any Weiand intake on any serious motor. There pieces are still from the 70's. Definitely be awesome to try out the Indy someday once I get my s**t together.
               
            • 6PKRTSE

              6PKRTSE Well-Known Member

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              I have an old Factory magnesium Hemi cross ram. It has a gravy greenish/yellow epoxy throughout out the whole inside the plenum area and runners. Also has about 10 lbs of high temp orange silicon about a half inch thick along the whole bottom of the plenum. I am guessing this is some sort of old super stocker trick and way too keep the manifold temps cooler
               
            • dvw

              dvw Well-Known Member

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              The Indy Mod-Man should be included as well. There are some out there that have showed decent results. Even shorter runners than the 440-25. I believe the center plenum mod helps these. Here is a picture of one with a mod. Not sure if this is the best mod as I have not used this intake.
              Doug
              Modman-1.jpg
               
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              • 493 Mike

                493 Mike FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                The Modman reminds me of the old Offy 360*. Those were not impressive.
                Mike
                 
              • Charger Dana

                Charger Dana Well-Known Member

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                This post is pure gold. One of the key reasons I like to come to this site. Thank you for sharing Doug, including great pics.
                 
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                • Budnicks

                  Budnicks You Can Just Thank Me Later FBBO Gold Member

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                  sort of reminds me of the old STR-14 or 15 Edelbrocks
                  manifolds of the early 70's

                  Hoover's mods
                  Edelbrock STR-14-6 Tom Hoover mods Direct Connections bulletin page 47.jpg
                  Hoovers tune, 6bbl
                  Intake 413-426w-440 Edelbrock STR-14-6 Cross Ram Tom Hoover 9-1975  jetting.jpg

                  they had to have mods done, the S/S guys
                  figured out & worked some stuff out,
                  the big wide open runners didn't work

                  old Hemi version, Rat Roaster
                  Intake 426ci Hemi Edelbrock Rat Roaster inline 2x4bbl Dick Landy's 70 Charger RT.jpg

                  I had run a few of them, single Dom,

                  Intake 413-426w-440 Edelbrock STR-14-4500 top.jpg

                  3 x 2300's & 2 x 4bbls
                  they worked down low really well
                  seemed to have issues upper RPM ranges
                  fuel fouling rear plugs
                  sort of got it sorted out
                  but the Edelbrock Tunnel rams were far, far better
                  used them in several different combos, FI or Carbs

                  Intake 413-426w-440 Edelbrock STR-14-6 Cross Ram Tom Hoover 9-1975 modification manifold.jpg

                  Intake 413-426w-440 Edelbrock STR-14 RB Cross Ram custom top with 2x4bbls inline.jpg

                  383-400 low deck STR-15
                  Intake Edelbrock 383-400 B-Low deck Str-15 #5 2x4bbl top.jpg

                  Intake Edelbrock 383-400 B-Low deck Str-15 #3.jpg

                  sort of reminds me of the old Smokey Yunick
                  manifolds for SB chevys too
                  really popular in the 70's

                  Intake Edelbrock SBC 265-400 SY-1 Smokie Ram Smokie Yunick Cross ram.jpg old early 70's tech.

                  Edelbrock the STR Hemi Base
                  Intake 426ci hemi Edelbrock STR Cross ram base.jpg

                  or the Rat Roasters for the Hemi's of the late 60's to early 70
                  had great success on the speedways too

                  never used any INDY Manifold "yet"
                  may try one down the road
                   
                  Last edited: Apr 1, 2021
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                  • Tex013

                    Tex013 Well-Known Member

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                    Haha , thats my intake .
                    I ran it on a 450ci rb , dual quad 600 eddys . It drove real nice on the street . Made ok hp , a little more than 850 4150 on a single plane , M1 ?
                    Was soft in the sixty at the dragstrip . Footbrake .
                    The filler was to see if it helped, reduced volume about 20% from 5 L to about 4L .
                    On the dyno we couldnt quite richen it enough , tried 4 hole spacers no gain .
                    I talked to the guys i bought it off and they had similar thoughts .
                    Either rev it , 7000 ? , on a 440ci or probably get a better result on a 500ci + motor .
                    This was done on a stock port head , you can open intake to max wedge . Even this might give a better result .
                    Still have it in the shed . I now have max wedge TF heads 505ci but am running Super Victor / 4500 carb .

                    PS : Doug i understand there are a few guys running them in NSS with good results .

                    Tex
                     
                  • biomedtechguy

                    biomedtechguy Accelerati Rapidus Maximus FBBO Gold Member

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                    Thanks for the thread Doug.
                    I have tortured myself (and some very kind forum members) for a few years now with my struggles and obsessions over intake manifolds, especially the Weiand P3690982 6bbl intake. I think I have read more data, accessed more web pages and articles about that Weiand intake than anyone on earth.
                    HERE'S MY LAST PSYCH SESSION on the topic, and I HAVE already made a decision:
                    I finally got the Weiand a while back, and it's a damn fine example of one I'll say. I have talked to guys who put the Weiand 6bbl on 7-10 years ago and are STILL running it today.
                    I even paid to have 2 "top cover to plenum" gaskets CNC'd so I'd have one available right away and one for backup.
                    Well, to each their own, but ALL of the information I've poured over says that "other than a well engineered, hand fabricated 6bbl "tunnel ram" type intake" that compared to the various Edelbrock "STR" offerings and others, the Weiand P3690982 6bbl setup produces the most horsepower and torque of ANY of them!
                    Today, as I "made another investment" (aka "I spent some more money") in my 541 stroker build, I also made the decision to get the Indy ModMan with the 6bbl top, and have it opened up to MaxWedge port size to accommodate the TrickFlow 270 heads going on my 541 BMP engine.
                    DAMN!! I was dead set on using the Weiand, but a few things have made me see that the ModMan, for me, is a better OVERALL choice:
                    I really LOVE the N96 hood on my 70 Roadrunner, and I know I'd regret changing it out to...anything but what it is. The happiness I get in the experience of driving my car is because of a lot of sensory experiences, but I'll tell ya, THIS is a big one:
                    Screenshot_20210402-005248_Photos.jpg
                    I'm not the only fan of the N96...

                    I bought my hood from AMD, and the paint match job is beautiful. $1500 invested in that, plus the N96 parts I have, and the ones that I still need, well, to me it's all worth it. The ModMan will let me have that and an intake "that works" for me.
                    The MaxWedge port "thing" was a requirement that is relatively "new" to the SAGA, and that factor definitely reshuffled the deck!
                    So, yeah, in the last 48 hours I was looking hard at the Indy 440-25, which I had considered before when MaxWedge port size became a MUST, but I had just figured I'd get the Weiand welded up and then opened up on the cylinder head end of the runners, but Doug( @dvw )pointed out that's the opposite direction to taper an intake runner, and I know there's not enough runner wall thickness to do much hogging out on the Weiand, and if I did the 440-25 I still couldn't have my beloved N96 hood, so that's how the ModMan won out.
                    I even used the "Break Glass In Case of Emergency" and I called Jim Laroy for his input. TF240s vs 270s on a 541, even if my focus is on torque, just doesn't make sense.
                    The big 6bbl air cleaner will hide the aluminized shoe box...
                    If I ever go to the F&B or other 6bbl EFI, the ModMan stands ready.
                    For those who phoo-phoo the performance (cooler air) benefit of this kind of fresh air system, one upgrade is a taller K&N air filter element, and I'm going to use the tallest one that will fit with the ModMan. K&N makes a 3½" vs the 2¾ factory filter. K&N also makes a 4" too.
                    So THANKS AGAIN to all who have been on the crazy ride or at least checked in in a time or two...
                    At least the Weiand seems to be bringing good money!
                     
                    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
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                    • dvw

                      dvw Well-Known Member

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                      With basically stock 1407 Edelbrocks the 440-25 has been 9.00@150 in real good air. Now it has real carbs. We'll find out this month if it'll get into the 8's. Not savvy enough to figure out how to pirate the Facebook video with sound. Those of you that have Facebook scroll down a few posts on my page.
                      Doug
                      https://www.facebook.com/douglas.wright.1954/
                       
                      Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
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                      • 68Dart470

                        68Dart470 Active Member

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                        Wow, that's moving with those carbs. That intake is no joke for sure.
                         
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