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Toyota's Woes

Can we let this dog lay for now? I really need my coffee...

Hey, I'm with ya...... :yes:

Like I said earlier, sorry to come off brash or like a steaming Juggernaut. I had no intentions to come off spewing negativity at you and most definitly respect your point of view.

Honestly, this thread turned out to be great. A lot of good, smart folks with a lot of great points of view. And with Scott, being UAW, you don't get too much more up front and personal with this subject. I'm sure learning a bunch from everyone.

Thanks for explaining the Francis line...You're a pretty smart guy and almost have like a Dennis Miller kind of humor. Sometimes it's hard to keep up with your knowledge based one liners..


Either way..........running for the coffee myself!! Thanks again for the debate and take care.
 
My dad has an out-of-control Camry. It happened when he was in a parking lot. When the car took off he almost hit the car in front of him and when throwing it into neutral he overshot and went into reverse and almost hit the car 30 ft in back of him. He then remembered to turn off the ignition. He thinks its software because turning it off seemed to "reset" things.

I told him to go back to Mopar because even if the 4 cyl cars aren't as refined as a Camry, at least they won't try to kill him!
 
Lighten up Francis.....Stripes
Unions could be a whole nother thread. Good and bad. All I can say for now in this economy we need to stick together. "United, we Bargain......Divided, we Beg".
 
Lighten up Francis.....Stripes
Unions could be a whole nother thread. Good and bad. All I can say for now in this economy we need to stick together. "United, we Bargain......Divided, we Beg".

Your coupon is in the mail....
And yes, you are more than right. Wether we agree on all levels or none, the cornerstone of being an American is that we stick together....
 
you guys all have valid points!
Im just saying, with one out of ten people out of work im not to excited about toyota having such problems. If they pack up and leave parts of their buisness here in the US dont expect the big three to open a factory right in their place! They (GM+Chrysler) are creating jobs all right.... unfortunatly not here in the US!
I wasnt crazy about buying a japanese minivan but after driving the US competition there was no question who made the better vehicle.
I think the american car companies were spoiled from people who would buy them no matter what just because of the american name sticker on them and didnt really pay attention to the foreign made motors or sticker that says assembled in mexico. Call me selfish but i dont like to waste my money on a vehicle that will brake down and/or have zero resale value after the first few years of owning it, especially when i can buy an assembled in US one that is reliable and can be resold a few years down the road.

Somone was talkin about toyota settin up plants in poor areas for $10 bucks an hour... and was comparing it to slave labor? Let me tell you they arnt forcing people to work there. Prolly was a line around the block to get a job there too. ten bucks an hour is pretty good when you think they can prolly have the same job done in china for 10bucks a week or less.

I just feel until we are not so heavily in debt to china we might have to take a $10 an hour job or two to get thru this. the unions bring our wages way up (im a union member myself) but they also make us way less competative with china for manufacturing jobs. I guess there has to be some kinda happy/unhappy medium before china owns us all...
GM and Chrysler were bailed out by our government with money borrowed from china... now that makes me wanna puke!

I guess we could argue this point till were blue in the face and we would prolly never get anywhere.... you guys all have valid points and i respect your opinions.
 
Hey RH, this is a good discussion! How 'bout this; money is all a joke! It's all 1's and 0's in a computer screen! I'm all for a quality product; no matter where it's from. Yes, there was a line at the Toyota factory here in San Antonio, and yes, many of them are Mexican migrant workers.

My Mexican built Chevy Avalanche has 149K miles, it's a 2002, I bought it brand new, it's been very reliable overall...and I'd buy another one if/when I needed to.
 
I am actually amazed at the direction this thread took. I had no idea when I started it that it would evoke such a thought process. Especially in myself. I thank you all for contributing and expanding, at the very least, my thought process.

RT, is your dad ok? I have to admit to having a bit of a chuckle on that. I could picture my dad doing the same thing and he doesn't even have a fly-by-wire throttle. (Guess you would have to know my dad.)
 
you guys all have valid points!
Im just saying, with one out of ten people out of work im not to excited about toyota having such problems. If they pack up and leave parts of their buisness here in the US dont expect the big three to open a factory right in their place! They (GM+Chrysler) are creating jobs all right.... unfortunatly not here in the US!
I wasnt crazy about buying a japanese minivan but after driving the US competition there was no question who made the better vehicle.
I think the american car companies were spoiled from people who would buy them no matter what just because of the american name sticker on them and didnt really pay attention to the foreign made motors or sticker that says assembled in mexico. Call me selfish but i dont like to waste my money on a vehicle that will brake down and/or have zero resale value after the first few years of owning it, especially when i can buy an assembled in US one that is reliable and can be resold a few years down the road.

Somone was talkin about toyota settin up plants in poor areas for $10 bucks an hour... and was comparing it to slave labor? Let me tell you they arnt forcing people to work there. Prolly was a line around the block to get a job there too. ten bucks an hour is pretty good when you think they can prolly have the same job done in china for 10bucks a week or less.

I just feel until we are not so heavily in debt to china we might have to take a $10 an hour job or two to get thru this. the unions bring our wages way up (im a union member myself) but they also make us way less competative with china for manufacturing jobs. I guess there has to be some kinda happy/unhappy medium before china owns us all...
GM and Chrysler were bailed out by our government with money borrowed from china... now that makes me wanna puke!

I guess we could argue this point till were blue in the face and we would prolly never get anywhere.... you guys all have valid points and i respect your opinions.

I know I will take alot of flak for this one, but didn't Harley-Davidson lobby the government into imposing tariffs on import cruisers over 1000cc because they couldn't compete with price, mpg, or quality? I know they tried to patent their sound because Honda came out with a single crankpin V-twin.
 
You are correct Rev! If the US Govt. didn't impose tariffs on Asian m/c's over 750cc (not 1000cc) Harley-Davidson would have gone out of business!
 
I think to even put Harley Davidson bikes in the same catagory/market as Asian cruisers is like comparing apples and oranges.
Being the owner of a Harley Davidson (2000 Road King Classic), it is quite obvious that my bike does not have the same creature
comforts as it's foreign counterparts. Ride comfort, MPG, accesories, handling, and power are things that the Asian and European
bikes definitly have an edge on. But I don't think Harley's main sales pitch and market drive is to create an illusion it holds the same
ammenities as its oversea competitors.

I think their main vantage or tool implemented into their maketing protocol is "name and image". The nostalgic of it all. When I bought my
bike, I didn't cross compare the Harley Davidson with Honda or Yahmaha in any aspects of options or performance. That would be like sitting on the
teeter totter with the fat kid. I bought it because it was a Harley Davidson. Always been around them, and you gotta love all the rumble and chrome.
Pretty much some of same reasons there is a 42 year old yellow Dodge sitting next to it in the garage. Good old American steel.

I honestly think that if Harley Davidson Continues to utilize a "name sake" or image mentality it will eventually be the end of their company. Back in the
hay day of Harley, after world war II, guys coming back from war wanted a thrill away from their newly formed suburban lives. Harley Davidson was almost a household name. Sons bought them because that's what dad had. Friends bought them because other friends had them. I think the tradition and comfort
of the name is slowly starting to unravel and their competitors are molesting the unused oppurtunity inside the market to turn profit. More and more people want to hop on a fuel injected 6 cylinder with built in cup holders and a garmin, than crouch down on a saddle seat and listen to Betty-Duke Betty-Duke Betty-Duke Betty-Duke Betty-Duke.

The sad truth of it all is Harley is in the same market as the Asian cruisers even though they are two different animals. Do they seperate themselves as a
different breed (obviously not working out too well), or try and compete with a similar product (Buell....R.I.P.)? Utilizing the government to impose tax/tariff
is just dirty and if they need to go that route...well...the game may already be over..I would really hate to see Harley go and watch the streets fill up with
rice burners, but if it does come to that point they are only going to have one person to blame.....Themselves!

Good night fellas
 
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Wow, love all the commentary. How is that vrod engine jointly designed by porche? How much tax breaks do asian companies get to build here? Anew trck should not 35-60k (depending on what you want), thank the factory workers for making it so expensive, this includes cars also. Maybe now things will calm down and the average guy that has a couple of kids, house, and all the bills that go with it can buy a new car/truck, now that gm/mopar have restructered, I cant, but thats because my boss hasn't give us a raise in 4 years---sucks for me!!!!! Hope this made sense, if not, consider it mumbling out loud.
 
Toyota's woes....

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So, what do you guys think?
Sticky throttle pedals? Aggressive floor mats?

I'm starting to think that it's a software problem. Most fly-by-wire pedals I have encountered are basically a hi-tech version of a potentiometer with a spring in it to provide resistance. I can't see it actually "sticking", but I suppose it's possible. I think it's more likely that the computer that handles the cruise control is taking over and accelerating the vehicle.

Being a car guy, I am thinking why aren't these folks reaching for the ignition key? Having had a throttle stuck on me before, I can say that that works.
I have heard repeatedly about these cars going to 100 MPH, I know that these Yota's won't cover a quarter in less than 17 seconds from a standing start. That's alot of time to react. I'm just saying.....
__________________

Most people do not know anything beyond "get in and turn the key." Given that general mentality, a simple fix like turn off the engine never occurs to them.

As far as Toyotas are concerned, I am glad to see that they make mistakes and that their "quality" and "oh what a feeling!" are finally being brought down to a realistic level. I get so tired of the arrogance of the owners of Asian cars (not all, just some).

I won't say anymore except that there are no Asian cars in out stable - never have been and never will be.

RR 8-16-08.jpg


Front and Left Side.jpg
 
Well first off, the only reason they have plants here to begin with is not "we sure do love you americans and we want to help all of you out by employing you", like their commercials depict. No, it's a loophole to avoid import taxes, and also avoid shipping costs. And no! they are not made in america, they are assembled in america with parts from the lowest bidder from all over the world! The initial closing of their plants would be offset by the increase of jobs created for domestic car MFG's. I was unfortunate enough to go through Janesville, WI recently where GM closed a major plant about a year and half ago. Yeah ghost town!! Foreclosure and for sale signs everywhere. Should I be happy KIA opened a plant in Georgia that employs less people per square foot than a sod farm and half the revenue is poured to Aisa?

As far as coming in and saving entire communities, yeah thats a great short term fix. It wasn't because the foreigners came sailing in with a superman cape, here to help out the americans in a dire situation. They build thier plants based off of market opportunties, location, accesibility, and labor force just like any other business. Their strategic decision to build there was not based off restoring community moral and economy. One of the only economic factors they looked at when reviewing areas of American ecomomic downfall is cheaper labor because of competition for jobs and geographical economy. Less money flowing into the Japanesse economy would mean more flowing in to ours, in turn: more money for R/D, technology upgrades, better engineering, state of the art equipment. To think we are better off having foreign companies having plants on american soil, with half the revenue pouring back over seas is just silly. I guess it's easy to look at the short term, yeah they employ people, but as time goes by and they build more and more, how is really helping our economy in the big picture? It's not!!! It's a setup for disaster, with american soil, people, and money being controlled by foreign investors and foreign big business.


I would never buy one of there products! My grandpa fought against them in WWII and two of his cousins (along with countless friends), were killed by them in Midway then Iwo Jima. Now we make their cars for them here on our soil?????? Makes me want to puke! May seem silly to you but it is in my blood and I refuse to support their economy! I'll let a Ford or a Chev park in my driveway anyday, foreign junk, out in the street!!!

I totally agree with the "gotten fat, lazy, complacent and greedy". This country brought this on itself with that kind of mentality. I just hope it can be turned around some way or another

Just my opinion..respect yours the same

Your opinion is shared.
 
You are correct Rev! If the US Govt. didn't impose tariffs on Asian m/c's over 750cc (not 1000cc) Harley-Davidson would have gone out of business!

I stand corrected, I remember when the metric cruisers first started showing up, the bulk of them capped off at 750cc. Most of those have bumped up to 800cc. Is that tariff still in place? Didn't it start in the mid 80's?
 
That would be like sitting on the
teeter totter with the fat kid.

C'mon, you can't hit me with lines like that while I am drinking my coffee. :rolling:

Harley has come a long way in the past twenty years. It's been a slow turn around though. Having ridden pans and a blockhead, I can honestly say that they are turning out what could be the best product they ever have. They are even becoming price competitive. I am actually looking at the new Wideglide and it's stands up very well against the metrics.
 
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