Want oversteer.

[Jonas Nordstrom]

I know I saw a good thread about this, but now I cannot find it again of course.

My 68 Charger wants to understeer when pushed.
It has Eddy ias shocks, Hotchkis front/rear sway bars, Hotchkis upper control arms, boxed lowers, adj struts, new HD leafs, 0.96 Torsions.

What would I need to change to get more oversteer?

 

[Kern Dog]

I think you misunderstand the terms.
You probably don't want "more oversteer" but less understeer....to the point that the car handles in a neutral manner. This way, neither end gives up traction first and the grip level is higher overall.
To get less understeer, you need more roll stiffness at the rear.
Stiffer leaf springs, a bigger sway bar, narrower tires. If you have rear tires that are a LOT wider than the fronts, this may look great for the street machine crowd but it doesn't help handling.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

I think you misunderstand the terms.
You probably don't want "more oversteer" but less understeer....to the point that the car handles in a neutral manner. This way, neither end gives up traction first and the grip level is higher overall.
To get less understeer, you need more roll stiffness at the rear.
Stiffer leaf springs, a bigger sway bar, narrower tires. If you have rear tires that are a LOT wider than the fronts, this may look great for the street machine crowd but it doesn't help handling.

It was just a thought I had after the test-driving this summer and it was more if I had to choose.
When it was understeering it was on soft surface (dirt/gravel) and maybe that is a whole different setting?

When driving on asphalt I have yet to notice any over/understeer so maybe I am overthinking things.

 

[Cranky]

I like a car with a touch of OS and prefer it. If you don't have a rear sway bar, you should add it but study up on what size you should get vs what's on the front for your car. You do not want too much but sounds like the car might be pretty close to neutral on a hard surface. It's pretty hard to get a car that's balanced on dirt and hard surfaces. You can also change things with tire combos, shocks and air pressure in the tires even. I've never done much 'hot dogging' on dirt and when I did I was young and dumb so there's little input on that lol but did some changes with my go cart with tire pressure. It did not want lower rear tire pressure like I thought at all but responded to less in the front and more in the rear. It was pushing really bad (understeer) and it caused the cart to run off the track.....and one time hit a tree because of it.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

I also prefer a touch of OS, though this comes from my younger days racing on dirt with smaller cars.
Though as you say, balancing it for both is prolly more work than its worth.

I had some fun with the Charger on dirt this summer and I guess its the winter time (Waiting to get out again and drive) that messes with the head.
It runs like a go-cart on hard surface and I should prolly leave it at that.

Rear sway is hotchkis on hardest setting.

 

[j-c-c-62]

I know I saw a good thread about this, but now I cannot find it again of course.

My 68 Charger wants to understeer when pushed.
It has Eddy ias shocks, Hotchkis front/rear sway bars, Hotchkis upper control arms, boxed lowers, adj struts, new HD leafs, 0.96 Torsions.

What would I need to change to get more oversteer?

The easiest starting point which you did not mention is the tires/wheels. They control the performance of everything else and when upgrading will actually gain grip. At some point with the required grip you are seeking, you normally then seek a suitable balance between front and rear. So the first question is, are you at a grip level you are happy with?
Aero tricks and additional negative camber will help with understeer reduction, at a price. This a very simplistic response only as a starting point.

edit IMO, any B body driver looking for proper handling should never run anything less than a 1" TB unless running say less then say a 30 aspect tire or a 6" or narrower tire.
Your .96's you will soon find very inadequate, but not right now with whatever your current set-up is.

edit 2 I just read your additional replies that you have noticed no over/understeer on hard surfaces, your understeer report/comment is about dirt.
Sorry, disregard my entire above comment.

 

[Cranky]

The easiest starting point which you did not mention is the tires/wheels. They control the performance of everything else and when upgrading will actually gain grip. At some point with the required grip you are seeking, you normally then seek a suitable balance between front and rear. So the first question is, are you at a grip level you are happy with?
Aero tricks and additional negative camber will help with understeer reduction, at a price. This a very simplistic response only as a starting point.

edit IMO, any B body driver looking for proper handling should never run anything less than a 1" TB unless running say less then say a 30 aspect tire or a 6" or narrower tire.
Your .96's you will soon find very inadequate, but not right now with whatever your current set-up is.

edit 2 I just read your additional replies that you have noticed no over/understeer on hard surfaces, your understeer report/comment is about dirt.
Sorry, disregard my entire above comment.

Oh man, when reading your post I was thinking you hadn't read everything yet....hey, we all do that!

 

[Ron H]

time hit a tree because of it

Hit a tree with your go-cart? Did that too, into a thick-prickly pine tree, would have been helpful to have reverse. No idea about OS or US; but I know it did with stupidity.

 

[Kern Dog]

The traction dynamics on dirt are so much different than paved surfaces.
On dirt, you do need to reduce rear traction to keep the front from pushing/running wide in turns. Oversteer on dirt is often much easier to induce and control than on a paved road. All you have to do is break traction for an instant to get the rear to begin to slip. Do this through throttle or brake. The drifting crowd uses the parking brake often....a rapid and momentary application of the brake gets the rear to step out slightly. I've done this on dirt with great success. A manual trans car with adequate power can do this by dumping the clutch with heavy throttle application, followed by modulating it to maintain control. I'm a much better drifter off road than I am on the street. It is a skill that takes quite a bit of practice and familiarity with the car to get right without spinning.

 

[Cranky]

Hit a tree with your go-cart? Did that too, into a thick-prickly pine tree, would have been helpful to have reverse. No idea about OS or US; but I know it did with stupidity.

When the cart started pushing, thought I could get off the gas and then hit it again and slide it a bit. My cart had some power and did that many times before but was on the grass already and was too late then thought I could drive it and miss the tree.....nope. At least I scrubbed off some speed before nailing it. Bent the front bar (had a resemblance of a push bar) and my pride lol

 

[33 IMP]

If you really want oversteer, put a biga$$ rear sway bar on it.
When you get tired of that, put a moderate sized sway bar in its place. I would chose one about half the diameter of your front one.
Then again, all my mpoars are manual steering and drum brakes. I don't even try to make em handle.

 

[Gus chiggins]

It was just a thought I had after the test-driving this summer and it was more if I had to choose.
When it was understeering it was on soft surface (dirt/gravel) and maybe that is a whole different setting?

When driving on asphalt I have yet to notice any over/understeer so maybe I am overthinking things.

I'm not the only one with anaylisis paralysis

 

[DeltaV]

Mount skinny, hard compound tires on the rear of your car.

 

[DeltaV]

The tire manufacturer can make your life miserable.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

The traction dynamics on dirt are so much different than paved surfaces.
On dirt, you do need to reduce rear traction to keep the front from pushing/running wide in turns. Oversteer on dirt is often much easier to induce and control than on a paved road. All you have to do is break traction for an instant to get the rear to begin to slip. Do this through throttle or brake. The drifting crowd uses the parking brake often....a rapid and momentary application of the brake gets the rear to step out slightly. I've done this on dirt with great success. A manual trans car with adequate power can do this by dumping the clutch with heavy throttle application, followed by modulating it to maintain control. I'm a much better drifter off road than I am on the street. It is a skill that takes quite a bit of practice and familiarity with the car to get right without spinning.

Kern Dog knows what he speaks of. I rode shotgun with him in his Dart with stock narrow tires while he hot-dogged it up and down dirt hills, hard 90's and a few 180's in a very small area of his property. He maintained complete control of the car. If that was me driving that path I would have smashed the rear of the car into the garage or a tree or dirt berm. Mighty fine driving Greg!

 

[Kern Dog]

That was some fun stuff. I'd love to take you off road to get the speeds up to where I could take you through a 200 ft sweeping curve hanging the tail out the whole way. That really is a blast to do and it doesn't wear the tires out so bad on dirt.

 

[Cranky]

If you really want oversteer, put a biga$$ rear sway bar on it.
When you get tired of that, put a moderate sized sway bar in its place. I would chose one about half the diameter of your front one.
Then again, all my mpoars are manual steering and drum brakes. I don't even try to make em handle.

I was surprised at the difference my 66 Belvedere I was after installing better shocks, wheels and tires and lowering it 1 1/2" and aligned it with a good bit of negative camber. Then started taking off weight and it got even better. Many thought I installed sway bars but the car didn't even have a front one! My 71 340 Cuda was even more impressive but it had stock front and rear bars with upgraded tires and wheels. It had the factory quick ratio power steering which was nice. The Belvedere had manual drums front and rear and the Cuda had power brakes. The Belvedere had the ssslllloooowww manual steering but it wasn't hard to steer at all even with the working factory AC for extra ballast lol

 

[33 IMP]

Cranky, now you've made me curious. My best friend has a 70 A66 Challenger, and I've never noticed if it has a stock rear sway bar or not. I've driven it, and can't say I was impressed with the handling, but I wasn't pushing it either. The tiny little stock tires on 14" road wheels don't help much either.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Since I seem to have a knack for kicking the proverbial hornets' nest, and for the potential enlightenment for those maybe on the sidelines, here goes:
What do you think not having or having a rear sway actually achieves?
For many this seems to be a trick question, but only for some.
Answers might be easiest to address if listed.

 

[Gus chiggins]

Since I seem to have a knack for kicking the proverbial hornets' nest, and for the potential enlightenment for those maybe on the sidelines, here goes:
What do you think not having or having a rear sway actually achieves?
For many this seems to be a trick question, but only for some.
Answers might be easiest to address if listed.

I always thought was for reducing body lean in turns, and aid in traction, no?