Tremec 5 speed conversion in a 1970 Charger

[Kern Dog]

I may have it figured out with these suggestions from FBBO guys. Thank you.
I fall victim to my temper and I don't like to lose to any person or any thing. I often forge ahead to get things done but I was on the verge of taking a hammer to something.
I measured the clutch alignment tool. It fit in the pilot bearing with a very slight wiggle. I count this a .625.

I got the trans out and measured the input shaft. I see this as .685. The input shaft IS larger than the pilot tool....

I checked again to make sure the bell slipped over the bearing collar of the trans. Yeah, it fits fine. It doesn't slip on though, I had to tap it with the rubber mallet.

The clutch fits the splines just fine.

 

[Road Rat]

I may have it figured out with these suggestions from FBBO guys. Thank you.
I fall victim to my temper and I don't like to lose to any person or any thing. I often forge ahead to get things done but I was on the verge of taking a hammer to something.
I measured the clutch alignment tool. It fit in the pilot bearing with a very slight wiggle. I count this a .625.

View attachment 1065098 View attachment 1065099

I got the trans out and measured the input shaft. I see this as .685. The input shaft IS larger than the pilot tool....

View attachment 1065100 View attachment 1065101

I checked again to make sure the bell slipped over the bearing collar of the trans. Yeah, it fits fine.

View attachment 1065102

The clutch fits the splines just fine.

View attachment 1065103

Yep KD, that’s the same pilot that SST sent with my new clutch. It seemed ok but would never quite line up well enough to go in all the way. I think it’s a GM pilot. I ended up ordering the correct one from Summit. It took care of the problem. It was still a pain because of the dual clutch discs but it worked.

 

[Kern Dog]

With the clutch and flywheel off.....

I measured the hole. This is a roller bearing with a small rubber seal at the edge. The seal measured at .61, smaller than the pilot tool AND the input shaft. Pushing the calipers in a bit deeper allowed me to spread them as wide as .780. I may have been between roller bearings one of the times but each measurement I tried resulted in a number greater than the .685 of the input shaft.

I don't think the size of the pilot bearing is the problem though.
Here comes more humility.....I didn't drive the bearing in flush and even like seen in this photo:

This is a bit of an exaggeration, but the bearing was sort of like this:

Before, that gold face sat flush to the crank hub at the bottom and stuck out at the top. The input shaft probably didn't like that at all.

I decided to do a mock up...again. I put the bell on with no flywheel or anything, then slipped the trans up and into place. It wasn't a slam dunk but it did go in.

Now I know that individually, all the parts fit. Time was ticking so all I was able to do was get the flywheel and clutch back in place.

Unless something else goes wrong, I should be able to get the transmission in place tomorrow.

 

[moparedtn]

Atta boy! Logical crime solving, step by step. Proud of you, my man.
I have a similar temperament to you I'm afraid - and have spent many a time
with everything loose (one time, even the bell itself!) trying to get it all to jive
and slip that damn thing in...
I am a devout fan of the latter-day pilot (the one that has bearings and sits in the
larger cavity of the crank, not that tiny-assed #$%# bushing) as a result - but yes,
on the current 18 spline in Fred right now, I had at least learned to take both types
of input bearing and test fit them on its' snout prior to doing anything else.
Believe it or not, Fred currently has both types in there!

 

[hunt2elk]

Great news KD. Glad it was something simple and also was a wise decision to walk away and think about it a bit. I know a couple people who would have just cranked down the tranny bolts and then had to deal with a bigger problem.

 

[joe smith]

I should have test fitted the pilot bearing on the input shaft.

I learned this the hard way trying to get the 4 speed into a 289 we transplanted into a 57 ford... Spent about a week pushing on it.....

 

[chargervert]

I would be more concerned about how long that pilot bearing that says CHINA on it in big letters,will survive!

 

[hunt2elk]

I would be more concerned about how long that pilot bearing that says CHINA on it in big letters,will survive!

I was thinking the same thing. I always use a bushing when possible, but if the only choice is a bearing.....

 

[joe smith]

I was thinking the same thing. I always use a bushing when possible, but if the only choice is a bearing.....

View attachment 1065361

And everyone knows NOT to grease or lube the bushing???? Leave it dry

 

[HawkRod]

If you use a bearing, I suggest you drill and tap it on opposite sides. Then, if you have to take it out, simply turn two bolts into the holes and the bearing will self extract itself! It saves a lot of curse words!

Hawk

 

[ckessel]

Here is a suggestion for you or anyone else doing an upgrade/swap using non oe parts. Write down the parts numbers of the pilot bearing, throw out bearing, disc, pressure plate etc and put them in a binder/notebook. Down the road you will need to replace them and Silver State may no longer be in business. They don't "make" all of these items. They figure out what to use and source them from suppliers etc. If you already have info on the wear items, you'll be way ahead of the game. Same goes for brake upgrades etc. If you have that info, finding replacements becomes much easier. Do you think the counter/phone guy at Autozone/NAPA/Summit will be able to find replacement parts for you if you have no clue/info for them to start with? When they ask the question "what's the application/what are you working on/ask for vehicle info"," duh I Don't know" is not an answer or something thats listed in their database. Once you start swapping/upgrading all bets are out the window. You need to be the one with the info. Parts stores databases don't have anything listed for you once you deviate from oe. You are the database source.

 

[Kern Dog]

Excellent idea. It also makes sense to order them to have in hand long before they are needed.

 

[ckessel]

Yup. Since parts stores, dealers etc don't want to have knowledgable gear heads employed, as they should be paid for their grey matter and skills, you are left with people who can only look stuff up on the computer and can't solve puzzles. If you know what you are doing, you can figure stuff out with a little info like bearing numbers, casting numbers on brake components, stamping numbers on carb's etc. It may sound like I'm bagging on parts people. No. I used to be one with 30+ years doing it. As a gear head, at least for me, I was always trying out or figuring out new combos, can I fit this on my vehicle, will this fit that etc when I wasn't waiting on someone. My co workers would give me some puzzled looks as I would periodically come in with dial calipers and tape measures to check stuff out. Recently I applied for a part time delivery driver job at a local Auto Zone, I'm retired and am reluctant to share my brain for no pay, and was told I was not qualified. Wow. Not qualified for a minimum wage part time delivery job. I went there to get a spark plug, had the Autolite number, and a 1/4" inline fuel filter for my pressure washer. I gave the kid behind the counter the info. He looked like a Deer in the headlights. Had to ask someone else to help as he did not have enough knowledge to look it up by crossing the part number. They asked me for an application. I told them it was a pressure washer. More head scratching. Did get a fuel filter. I put the blame on the company for not wanting to hire employees with skills and not training them. If you don't know how to do research, you'll get nowhere. Again company/management training failure.

 

[Kern Dog]

I do agree. They want drones that can use the computer, not actual skilled employees that can help people.

 

[Kern Dog]

This damn transmission..... My hands are sore from man-handling this friggin thing and I don't have office-guy hands.
Another 2 hours spent trying to get it to seat. At best, I get 3/8" from being seated. Having the car lift and the trans jack is great but sometimes being on the concrete with the leverage of the floor along with 2 hands and 2 legs to push....I don't know which is better.
How the hell is this supposed to fit?
The trans fit in there with no clutch.
The clutch fit the input shaft.
I am wiggling the rear of the trans, clocking it, shaking it and cannot get anywhere. I tried loosening the pressure plate bolts but that resulted in the pressure plate fingers extending and taking up all the slack in the throwout bearing. This meant that to seat the trans, I was now having to work against the pressure plate.
This has been the biggest pain in the dick of this whole project. If you're considering this swap, be warned. This part sucks ***.
I called a buddy that did this installation in a '71 Challenger 6 or 7 years ago. He is going to come by and lend a hand.

 

[5.7 hemi]

Did ya leave in gear and turn the output shaft?

 

[1 Wild R/T]

I've always heard the third times the charm so I'll post this a third time...
Loosen the bolts that attach the pressure plate so the disc can move.... That way the input shaft acts as the alignment tool... Assuming the trans slides in then tighten the bolts.....

 

[Jesse6869]

That’s what i was saying for me took couple days 3 pilot bearings but i was in heaven and relieved when it went in. KD i would double check pilot baring make sure u didn’t damage it.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Is that hydraulic throw-out bearing not set deep enough and hitting the clutch face?

 

[ckessel]

Field R&D in action once again. Its why beer is handy. Time for another break before tools get thrown and neighbors wonder if you were in the Navy[ swearing like a sailor]. Maybe a little "brown chicken-brown cow" music in the background will help you get it slipped in.