Buyer Beware - Rick Ehrenberg

gdrill said:

It will be interesting to hear the defense if it so pans out. But at this point the biggest mistake made was Rick saying, "he" would stand behind the engine. That implies he had faith in the builder.........perhaps blind faith which appears to be the case of the purchaser here as well.

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Again, we have one side of that statement. Still waiting to hear from the defense.

The Professor has replied to me from the road somewhere. He asked me to post this on his behalf.
I do so without any editing. This is verbatim what I received from him a few minutes ago:

"Ed-
I am driving a 1970 V-code Road Runner from New York to San Francisco at the moment, so my reply will be brief. I have not had the benefit of seeing his post, I'm just responding to what you mentioned.

In the spring of last year, we sold this guy a professionally rebuilt 72 340, 0.030" o/s, forged crank and pistons, that was done by a well known Mopar pro shop a while back. (The builder is deceased). It was a cammed-up, single-plane semi-drag motor, and he was aware of that. Big tube tti headers were part of the package but he declined them. Great for a 3,000 lb A-body, but he was insistent on putting it in a pig heavy 73 or 74 b-body. He had us change the intake manifold to a dual plane, which made the combo even worse, because it was a manifold with no high RPM Power, and a cam with no low end. But he hadda have a 340. OK, whatever.

When he came to pick it up we used a borescope to look at each cylinder wall and piston top. We read the numbers on the pistons and looked at the cylinder walls which were perfect - flawless, like jewelry. He agreed. You could see the crosshatch. The engine had been sealed tight.

So he decides to break it in with synthetic oil, and, no surprise, the rings don't seat. Then started a long email chain; he had this so-called engine builder pull it apart, and he sent me an e-mail, which I have, where he said everything looked perfect inside. I had given him many suggestions as to how to get the rings to seat, but never got a reply or response to any of those points. He also doesn't live all that far from me, but never showed me the car. Or even called.

Months later, actually over a year, he sends another email, now the cylinder walls are suddenly rusty. Huh? And the block needs to be sleeved? Even assuming everything he says is correct, why not 0.040" oversize? Got no response to that either - deaf ear syndrome.

Then he decides he wants a 360, which he has built by his buddy, but he uses a bunch of parts from the 340 he bought from us, including the connecting rods, heads, valve gear, manifold, etc etc. Without saying a word to me.

I am not saying he is a bad person; just that he has gotten a lot of really bad "advice and help". This started, I presume, when he was told a 340 was good for his application. I guess he has finally awakened to the smell of the coffee, and figured out that a 360 is far superior in a heavy car. Had it been mine, it would have had a 408 from day one.

So now it is a year and a half later. And he wants $1,000 back?

When pigs fly.

Rick

PS to Ed...please post all of the above...thanks VERY much!"

For what it's worth, there's the "other side" from the man himself. I offer no personal opinions or "judgements" of my own.
I just wanted to have both sides of the disagreement posted herein.
-Ed

Thanks for all your comments. Some of you have dealt with me over the years, most have not. A few salient details:
- I'm not going to say how much I paid for the rebuilt motor, but it was not top dollar, nor was it $600. Since Rick put it out there how much I was looking for in compensation, you can do the math.
- Rick said the engine builder died several years ago (well known in Mopar racing circles in southern NY/CT). He (Rick) specced the motor for the builder.
- I told Rick I did not think he personally left the engine exposed to have that much condensation accumulate.
- And because it ran, I'm not looking for a full refund (why would I?)
- Rick was made aware about this back in July, but he was having some personal issues so I gave him 60 days out of respect for that before I asked for some compensation.
- From Rick, via email correspondence on 6/16/17: "I didn't build it, but I know the guy who did, well respected, real Mopar guy, now pushing up daisies. I have 100% confidence in it."

While I do not disagree with caveat emptor, I treat people the way I want to be treated. He said he'd stand behind it, and that's where I draw the line. He never countered with anything (money or parts), even though I gave him several attempts to do so. Its a cold world.

Glad that Moparedtn got Rick's side. Hope someone posts it on Moparts, too.

There’s the other side, yikes

Here in Mexico dodge install 318 into b bodies for years, ford install in the half ton truck an anemic 302 that produce 140 up for 3decades I still see those truck heavily loaded a 340 not suitable for a b body ?IMHO that's BS, the rust in those cylinders doesn't form from night to day ,unfortunate comments especially in a site were almost everybody like mechanics and v8.

coronet68mx said:

Here in Mexico dodge install 318 into b bodies for years, ford install in the half ton truck an anemic 302 that produce 140 up for 3decades I still see those truck heavily loaded a 340 not suitable for a b body ?IMHO that's BS, the rust in those cylinders doesn't form from night to day ,unfortunate comments especially in a site were almost everybody like mechanics and v8.

View attachment 664858 View attachment 664859

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What I see is the engine wasnt properly stored after purchase, not ricks fault.

1967coronet440 said:

What I see is the engine wasnt properly stored after purchase, not ricks fault.

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I agree, maybe the engine wanst properly break in with the sintetic oil, they lack of zinc , but I own a business too and I never say to a customer or former customer "when pigs fly" that's just rude and not polite specially if someone is complaining.

rt-man said:

Thanks for all your comments. Some of you have dealt with me over the years, most have not. A few salient details:
- I'm not going to say how much I paid for the rebuilt motor, but it was not top dollar, nor was it $600. Since Rick put it out there how much I was looking for in compensation, you can do the math.
- Rick said the engine builder died several years ago (well known in Mopar racing circles in southern NY/CT). He (Rick) specced the motor for the builder.
- I told Rick I did not think he personally left the engine exposed to have that much condensation accumulate.
- And because it ran, I'm not looking for a full refund (why would I?)
- Rick was made aware about this back in July, but he was having some personal issues so I gave him 60 days out of respect for that before I asked for some compensation.
- From Rick, via email correspondence on 6/16/17: "I didn't build it, but I know the guy who did, well respected, real Mopar guy, now pushing up daisies. I have 100% confidence in it."

While I do not disagree with caveat emptor, I treat people the way I want to be treated. He said he'd stand behind it, and that's where I draw the line. He never countered with anything (money or parts), even though I gave him several attempts to do so. Its a cold world.

Glad that Moparedtn got Rick's side. Hope someone posts it on Moparts, too.

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In Rick's reply, he said there is an email chain. Why don't you copy and paste them so we can see what you guys both wrote to each other?

Break in oil did not destroy that block
So all I see is jive and someone not keeping their word.
I'm sure he said he would stand behind it
Just To make the sale to begin with.
Now it is just excuses
Just another case of someone telling somebody something to appease them
And then not standing behind what was said.
That is what I see.
The digs at the end
Just puts a cherry on top.
What a tool..

This is an ufortunate matter for both sides - with many factors ..
Ive done stuff with Rick and if it went bad , he resolved it immediately ..
Not a year later . Were not buddies, but i know he knows right from wrong.
Im sure he didnt anticipate these circumstances . And dont think hes liable.
Someone else has touched the bores . Who knows how it was stored before or after.
This post will not make 99% of the other buyers beware of Rick.
Its a 50 year old piece that rusted at some point.
Perhaps if privately handled , there would have been some resolve ..
Cant see much now.
This just makes people aware of how things might go with a piece of metal.
You lucked out at 3k.
Coulda been 7k or 8k .

It's more than complaining it's essentially slandering Rick here with no evidence that the the bores were bad when he bought the motor?
To the contrary sounds like they tried to verify that they were good. I've bought a few parts from Rick and they were always shipped immediately. One of which was an oil pressure switch that went bad after a couple starts. He shipped a new one immediately no questions asked. Admittedly it's a cheap part but following the timeline and narrative here, I don't think the original post here was warranted or appropriate. Do you really think Rick asked someone to build a crappy motor so he could sell it a few years later to rip someone off?
I don't believe it.

You say only a couple bores were checked. He says all the bores were checked. Who's correct ?

rt-man said:

Glad that Moparedtn got Rick's side. Hope someone posts it on Moparts, too.

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"I offer no personal opinions or "judgements" of my own."
Which part of that was confusing?

flypaper said:

Break in oil did not destroy that block
So all I see is jive and someone not keeping their word.
I'm sure he said he would stand behind it
Just To make the sale to begin with.
Now it is just excuses
Just another case of someone telling somebody something to appease them
And then not standing behind what was said.
That is what I see.
The digs at the end
Just puts a cherry on top.
What a tool..

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1st I'll say I always tell buyers NOT to buy a crate engine or if it's used it must be at least partially disassembled for inspection.Now,,,,even if every cylinder were not looked at,rust and pitting would have been evident.So,,,,,IMO this rust occurred after the purchase.
I am surprised the buyer did not even "go through" the used engine before installation!
Rick has been around this hobby a long time and so have I
Have NEVER heard a bad word about Rick and was surprised to read the beginning of this thread.
Fly,,,,me thinks you should reconsider what you say

coronet68mx said:

I agree, maybe the engine wanst properly break in with the sintetic oil, they lack of zinc , but I own a business too and I never say to a customer or former customer "when pigs fly" that's just rude and not polite specially if someone is complaining.

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The gist of that email was, at least to me, "hey, once it got past a year out of my hands and then the thing got stripped for parts, NOW he wants a partial refund?"

Bottom line is only the two affected parties know all the details. Really, really hard for any of the rest of us to form concrete opinions as a result.

Not trying to take sides here, but when you base sales on your name and reputation, which Rick does, you'd better be prepared to keep your reputation good.

It all goes back to keeping your word
On the other hand
A grand back to me is extreme
Find him another block
For a few hundred
Is your word worth that?
Many ways to compromise
So everyone is happy

I think someone needs a big fat L slapped on their forehead, and it's not E-booger!!

I wouldn't under any circumstances guarantee an engine unless I operated a shop that rebuilds engines as a profession. If he said "I Guarantee that engine to be free of defects" then he should bite the bullet. If he said only that "he has confidence" then it is now just one guy believing someone else's opinion that he didn't know well enough to do so.

A buyer doesn't have any responsibility to allow someone to redo a repair that was done wrong. If the person did it wrong the first time why let them take another shot at it, the trust is gone. The buyer is offering to come to some sort of a compromise. If someone sold me an engine that he was going to give a warranty on I sure would have had it in writing. I think this is a deal made of assumptions. One guys confidence is another persons warranty. The damage looks like a long time of sitting but I didn't remember reading that there was a long period of storage by the buyer. As for the seller making changes to the engine for the buyer that he didn't agree with, he could have just said "NO, I will not do that for you!"

This is a deal of bad choices on both sides.

As I see it, the OP really hasn't much of a leg to stand upon. As stated above, when buying a crate motor or one from another seller, always...and I repeat "ALWAYS"... do a complete tear down and inspection before you attempt to install it and run it. That even goes for the crate motors that you can buy from MOPAR. It's just the way it is. Personally I prefer to build my own. I have done 3...very small number in comparison to many others here...but I know that if there is a situation with it, it is on me and no one else. Otherwise, have your machinist or builder keep you directly in the loop during the build. I made the mistake back when the Iraq War began of having a so called reputable builder put together my 383 for my '66 Plymouth Satellite project because I was on the road constantly flying for the USAF. Big mistake!!! He somehow got the #1 counter weight on the crank to hit the bottom of the #1 cylinder sleve bottom on the internal block side of the motor and it would subsequently jam up and not rotate the complete system. WTF???? I wound up doing a complete tear down and inspection resulting in nothing significant to cause it. Yet it still jammed up. So I replaced the crank with a different one and put the motor back together. It fired right up but developed a very loud and prevalent knock that I could not trouble shoot and analyze. So I found a short block already set up with crank, rods, pistons, cam, heads, timing chain and gears. I inspected it and all was perfect. I disassembled the knocking motor and swapped parts and cam to the new one. By the way the new motor was an HP from 1969. Long story short, it runs like a raped Ape now. I went back to the builder of the first motor and he proceeded to accuse me of mucking it up and he always stands by his work. Turns out, he has had a very long list of failed builds and major law suits against him. I took the loss in stride and it actually worked out for the better. But the lesson here is two fold...1) Make damn sure that you research the builder before you engage in either a sale or a build. 2) Caveat Emptor...beware as a buyer.

To the OP...I hope things will be OK from now on. EBooger is a fantastic addition to our hobby and has helped countless hobbyists, myself included, with so many tips, tricks, and advise. I have never had one single problem with the results from his advise. Nor anything I have purchased from him. To come on and immediately slam him as you have done is nothing short of disgraceful and rather childish on your part. Instead try and air out what has been taking place with your 340 from him and instead try and work it out between you both. You want reparations? Try being a little less demanding than what you initially did. This community is a very tight one and we know of those that are not reputable and those who are. In this case, EBooger is very reputable...IMHFO. And why even air it out on MOPARTS??? That site "SUCKS." cr8crshr/Tuck