1969 383 Super Bee Cooling Issue

[69dodgesuperbee]

Hi Everyone,

I want to start out by saying I'm pretty new to Mopars so speak slowly and clearly.

I have a numbers matching 1969 Super Bee with a 383, automatic transmission and factory air conditioning. About 1500 miles ago (a little over a year) I finished rebuilding everything on the car after I pulled it out of a 26 year storage.

The professional engine builder thoroughly cleaned the block and heads and removed everything (crud) from the inside and outside of the block. I did not see how he did it, but everything was 100 percent clean so I assume he submerged the block in something. It was completely bare when finished. The engine was rebuilt built to stock specs. The timing is set to about 9 degrees BTC. It uses a Pertronix electronic ignition set up installed in a new stock distributor. Even though it doesn't show it in the picture, it uses a Pertronix coil as well.

I installed a radiator out of a 1969 "C" body (radiator #2949 037). The radiator is a 26" and is for a 440 with an automatic transmission and a/c. The radiator shop opened it up, thoroughly cleaned it and leak tested it when finished. I installed new green coolant. I pressure tested a new, 16 lbs. radiator cap and it worked as it should. This car is totally stock with the exception of the fan. I know the fan needs to be replaced. It is about 17.5" in diameter with six blades and is an old aftermarket flex fan. I do have a reproduction fan shroud installed in the car with an opening of about 20.5" diameter.

Here is the issue I am having. The temp was great all last winter and spring. It ran nice and cool as it should. (I don't remember the installed thermostat temp, but it is whatever came stock on the car.) When summer rolled around, it started running hotter in slow or stopped traffic. It cooled down to about 200 degrees if you were running down the road. I would use an infrared thermometer on the thermostat housing and it would read between 210-214 on a 105 degree Texas day just idling in the driveway. It never overheated though. I have read many of the threads posted and many say their car runs under 200 degree on hot days like I am describing. I would like mine to as well.

Here are my questions.
1) What is the part number of the fan that was originally installed in this car?
2) Was it a clutch type fan or a fixed fan?
3) What is the diameter of the fan?
4) Others have mentioned there is an a/c fan pulley and a non a/c fan pulley. What is the diameter of and a/c pulley supposed to be?
5) When the engine was rebuilt I used a new 8 blade water pump. Is this correct?

Please feel free to ask questions. I want to get this right for this summer.

Below are a few pics so you can kind of see what it looks like in the car.

Thanks for your help - Ken
a/c pulley so I can check

 

[texas69bee]

This should help you out a little. http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?76980-tonysparts-com I asked the same questions a few months ago. Are you sure its a #'s matching. I thought all Superbees had HP blocks. If it is an HP block and you were going for original then your engine color is wrong. What kind of hood do you have?

 

[69dodgesuperbee]

This should help you out a little. http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?76980-tonysparts-com I asked the same questions a few months ago. Are you sure its a #'s matching. I thought all Superbees had HP blocks. If it is an HP block and you were going for original then your engine color is wrong. What kind of hood do you have?

Thanks for getting back to me. My vin number is stamped into the block and transmission housing. When it came to color, I asked around and I got a lot of mixed info on the color. So, I cleaned up the grime as best as I could and found a lot of the turquois. You can see the hood in the attached picture.

 

[Bigcountry]

That's a 68 power bulge hood....came on R/T car's I believe. Rare and hard to come by. Do you know what the cylinders have been bored to? I really don't think 210-214 is bad considering it's just sitting in your driveway on a 105 degree day. That radiator needs air flowing thru it to be effective. I think that the a/c cars were non hp blocks and got the turquoise paint.

 

[69Coronetrt]

I thought all Superbees had HP blocks. If it is an HP block and you were going for original then your engine color is wrong. What kind of hood do you have?

Bees with A/C got the 330 horse turquoise engine. His is the right color for an A/C car.

 

[A383Wing]

the 8 blade pump is wrong for an AC car...you need the smaller 6 vane pump for your application if you are still running the stock factory AC pulleys

 

[69Coronetrt]

That's a 68 power bulge hood....came on R/T car's I believe..

That was the standard hood for 68 and 69 Super Bees and Coronet R/Ts. It's, virtually, the same hood for both years with the exception of the trim strip added above the grille for '69.

 

[5.7 hemi]

The fan should be an 8 blade with a thermal clutch.

 

[Dennis H]

Was a digital laser temp gun used? 214 does not seem to be an unusual spike while idling in those conditions and ambient temperatures. Replace flex fan. Green coolant, 180 Stant Superstat, and think about a 1/2 spacer under carb if hood clearance allows. Pic is 69 Coronet R/T. As above 68-89 Power Bulge hoods are the same except the leading edge strip,added to 69's.

 

[69dodgesuperbee]

the 8 blade pump is wrong for an AC car...you need the smaller 6 vane pump for your application if you are still running the stock factory AC pulleys

I'm not sure if I still have the a/c pulleys on the car or not. I need to find out the diameter of the pulley to find out for sure. Do you happen to know the fan's diameter of the pulley?

- - - Updated - - -

The fan should be an 8 blade with a thermal clutch.

Are you referring to the fan or the water pump? I have not seen an 8 blade fan. Aren't most of them 7 blades?

- - - Updated - - -

That's a 68 power bulge hood....came on R/T car's I believe. Rare and hard to come by. Do you know what the cylinders have been bored to? I really don't think 210-214 is bad considering it's just sitting in your driveway on a 105 degree day. That radiator needs air flowing thru it to be effective. I think that the a/c cars were non hp blocks and got the turquoise paint.

I do not know what the engine got bored out to. What I do know is this car was a one family owned car with low miles, 22,465 when I got it. When I opened up the engine, there was no wear showing and you could still see the original honing cross hatches. The pistons were still the standard pistons that came on the car. There were no ridges at the top of the cylinders either. So, I'm assuming it was just bored just enough to clean it up, but I don't know for sure.

- - - Updated - - -

Was a digital laser temp gun used? 214 does not seem to be an unusual spike while idling in those conditions and ambient temperatures. Replace flex fan. Green coolant, 180 Stant Superstat, and think about a 1/2 spacer under carb if hood clearance allows.Pic is 69 Coronet R/T. As above 68-89 Power Bulge hoods are the same except the leading edge strip,added to 69's.

I used an infrared thermometer to check the temps. I would drive the car is slow moving traffic for like 10-15 minutes and pull into a parking lot or driveway and pop the hood quick and check it.

 

[bee71]

Never believed in flex fans. If you want to go with a lighter weight fan try an aluminum one.

 

[inspector]

How old is the water pump? Sometimes the blades on the inside of the pump rust away and don't flow enough fluid to keep the engine cool. NICE RIDE

 

[texas69bee]

69CoronetRT is correct about the engine color. That type of hood is the 330hp version. Take a look at this article.

Air Pockets in the Cooling System

Air pockets will develop after the cooling system has been drained and refilled. If an air pocket is present, the coolant temperature sensor output will swing wildly as it’s alternately exposed to air, then coolant, then air. Many thermostats come pre-drilled with a small hole and "jiggle valve" designed to prevent air pockets by allowing air bubbles past the thermostat, so they can reach the highest point in the cooling system.

Run it with the radiator cap off and burp it.

Sorry the attached image is so small. Its about the cooling system from your service manual. Trouble shooting over heating problems.

 

[67 coronet]

it sounds like just an air flow issue across the rad.how close is the fan to the radiator?should only be about 1/2 in or so space.also,how close are the tips of the fan to the edge of the shroud?that also should be very close.if those spaces are too big air flow suffers greatly.

 

[69dodgesuperbee]

How old is the water pump? Sometimes the blades on the inside of the pump rust away and don't flow enough fluid to keep the engine cool. NICE RIDE

The water pump was new when the engine was rebuilt about a year ago. It's got about 1500 miles on it now.

- - - Updated - - -

it sounds like just an air flow issue across the rad.how close is the fan to the radiator?should only be about 1/2 in or so space.also,how close are the tips of the fan to the edge of the shroud?that also should be very close.if those spaces are too big air flow suffers greatly.

I know this is an issue which is why I was asking about the correct fan and puller diameter in the original post. It is about 17.5" in diameter with six blades and is an old aftermarket flex fan. I do have a reproduction fan shroud installed in the car with an opening of about 20.5" diameter. The distance from the center of the fan to the radiator is just under 2".

 

[miller]

Just to be clear...you say you put in new green coolant.

A little off the wall, okay. Straight coolant, or mixed with water? Could be a dumb question.
No expert, but always been told using the green coolant, it needs to have a 50/50 mix to cool right.

Of course, past that, the cooling system parts need to be right. At the least, I'd look for the right fan, and space it correctly to the radiator.

 

[69dodgesuperbee]

Just to be clear...you say you put in new green coolant.

A little off the wall, okay. Straight coolant, or mixed with water? Could be a dumb question.
No expert, but always been told using the green coolant, it needs to have a 50/50 mix to cool right.

Of course, past that, the cooling system parts need to be right. At the least, I'd look for the right fan, and space it correctly to the radiator.

It's mixed 50/50. I'm looking for the correct fan as we speak. I took a good look at what's in the car and I really don't like it. It's a vintage flex fan that is too small in diameter and is too far from the radiator. I'm really thinking if I get the correct fan, my problems will be solved.

 

[miller]

Good deal! Lol...just checking.

Yeah, the right fan could make the dif. You already have the shroud. A/C car should take it's own type fan, since more cooling is usually needed.

Don't think much of flexfans, either.

 

[GearAddict]

First off, nice car.

You're on the right track, right fan, fan clutch and you should look for the AC water pump, it's 6 vane I believe (less than the standard), which moves the coolent through the system slower so that it has more time in the radiator to cool down.

Chrysler did a decent job of cooling these beasts and I have learned on nearly every muscle car I have owned that unless you are going to redesign the cooling system completely, don't mess with factory stock (i.e., no flex fans, electric fans, removed fan shrouds etc...) just my personal exp.


BTW... Check out this thread... I was trying to compile links to manuals, parts catalogs, and general mopar reading material... There are links to free copies of the Field Service Manual for your car as well as the Parts Catalog, which will help you invaluably find the correct part numbers for the parts you are searching for.

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopar...ar-Restoration-Library-thread-Possible-Sticky

Best of luck