4 speed clutch issues

[dadsbee]

Mine wasn't that bad looking, but a quick lick with a 60 grit disc and it's as rock solid as it was in '79! Faced the OE flywheel in my old Forward lathe and then gave it the same cross hatch treatment with the flap wheel while rotating in the lathe.

 

[padam]

The one thing you really have to watch out for on factory cast iron flywheels is heat checking or cracking.

If the cracks are too deep to be removed by refacing, the flywheel should be replaced.

On a modified engine, and higher than stock pressure plate, you can get in the danger zone for a flywheel explosion.

I think most borg and beck pressure plates have centrifugal assist, and the pressure builds exponentially.

 

[dadsbee]

OE... looks like ****. Quick lathe lick and a flap wheel... flywheel shown above!

 

[moparedtn]

Honestly...I just miss the old stock clutches. Heck, replacements from NAPA were just fine, too.

 

[dadsbee]

Honestly...I just miss the old stock clutches. Heck, replacements from NAPA were just fine, too.

I couldn't keep a factory clutch disc and plate in the Bee for more than a week in the late '70's. The Hayes and McLeod combo is still running strong 40 years later and has never slipped.

 

[Daves69]

.....But given that I would be keeping the 11" heavy-assed factory flywheel and the 11" bellhousing behind
my 440, what are my NON-diaphragm choices out there now?....

I currently have a 143 tooth 11" flywheel with a B&B 23 spline set behind my 440. If I were replacing this clutch and disc I might take a look at this Hays set but I would also want to make sure it's not a scalloped 11" first....
https://www.holley.com/products/drivetrain/clutches/classic_clutches/chrysler/parts/85-311

An 18 spline "set" may be a bit more challenging to find if you're ruling out Ram. I'm sure someone here knows a supplier.

 

[moparedtn]

I couldn't keep a factory clutch disc and plate in the Bee for more than a week in the late '70's. The Hayes and McLeod combo is still running strong 40 years later and has never slipped.

Groovy. I must be better with a stick.

Geez, pipe down, I'm kidding...
But unfortunately, according to both of their websites neither of them offer B&B type anymore, so...

 

[dadsbee]

Yah I had a hell of a time finding a disc (and had kept the cardboard box part number in the glove box since '79), but got lucky that some guy on Ebay was selling a disc "for a truck" for 30 bucks and the number matched! Seems the OP just bought the Hayes set though...

 

[moparedtn]

Hayes does still show a setup for the 23 spline....
However, hold the phone!
Is this the "right" type here?
https://www.holley.com/products/drivetrain/clutches/pressure_plates/parts/50-110

 

[dadsbee]

Looks close.. don't see a 23 spline disc though..

 

[moparedtn]

Looks close.. don't see a 23 spline disc though..

Looking for me, sorry...and I do have an 18 spline.
Man, that Hays website sucks to look stuff up on.
I found this by doing an external search, though:
https://www.holley.com/products/drivetrain/clutches/street_450_clutches/parts/91-3001

 

[Daves69]

Looking for me, sorry...and I do have an 18 spline.
Man, that Hays website sucks to look stuff up on.
I found this by doing an external search, though:
https://www.holley.com/products/drivetrain/clutches/street_450_clutches/parts/91-3001

Your FW is the 143, assumed with just the 11" BC, I doubt this is the "set" you want as it appears to be for the 130 FW BC.
You could use the disc with the 143 FW and PP.

Summit maybe?
Make PLYMOUTH

Model:GTX

Beginning Year:1967

Ending Year:1971

Engine Type:V8

Engine Family:Mopar big block RB

Engine Size:7.2L/440

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hay-31-212/applications/make/plymouth


From Hays '08 Cat.......

Way out of the box, maybe look at the possibility of adding the smaller BC to your FW by a well qualified machinist.

 

[yella71]

im just waiting to see what the issue is with the OPs clutch or what they find...or dont find

 

[moparfanUSA]

OK, so here is what we have so far. Put the car up on the lift and removed the inspection cover. Then checked the distance between the throw-out bearing and the fingers on the PP and there was about 3/16" ( we also made it more and then less to see if there was any change). So we confirmed that the throw-out bearing was NOT touching and keeping the disk from being fully engaged and the bearing spun freely. Confirmed that when you push in the clutch it lets the disc come off the flywheel. ( Remember that this new clutch set is about a day old and the flywheel was just sent to a machine shop to be resurfaced). But yet when you dump the clutch it just spins and does not lock up the tires and you can smell it burning. ( I hate the 3 finger set up, way to much pedal pressure vs, a diaphragm set up). We even checked all of the linkage to see if things were not lined up right, but even if there was an issue with that ( and there was not) the throw-out bearing is NOT touching the PP, which means the PP is fully pushing on the disk to the flywheel. Looking at the disk and the PP that just came out of the car, showed something very surprising....looks like only about 30% of the disk was actually touching the flywheel and the PP. I could feel some ridges on the disk and PP. (pictures below you can see the inner 2/3 has not even been touched, just the outer 2 bands). Sooooo, the only thing I have not replaced is the flywheel, ordered a new one along with a BRAND new Zoom Clutch set ( the HP one). Going to change it all. On the set that is in the car now, I really thing it is bad right out of the box ( remember it is a Hayes borg and beck style). Next week going to change it all! Nothing more to change.

 

[Daves69]

( I hate the 3 finger set up, way to much pedal pressure vs, a diaphragm set up)

Without the as designed OC spring, you bet!

....On the set that is in the car now, I really thing it is bad right out of the box ( remember it is a Hayes borg and beck style)....

On a new MP B&B cover I found one finger off about .050" on my .310" fixture. (not enough to cause what you a having)

Some things you may want to check off prior to your new set install.
--Bell housing bearing retainer bore to crank centerline runout with bell bolts at proper torque.
--Crank face to bell trans face runout with bell bolts at proper torque.
--Input shaft for bent / twisted / galled spline condition.
--Crank thrust fore and aft motion.
--Review the FSM assembly.

 

[dadsbee]

Not sure what Pressure plate you're showing in that picture, but it's not a 3 finger B&B...

Was the disc in the correct way? Your picture is showing the flywheel side...

AH.. I read it again.. B&B is still in the car, these are from last time?!

 

[moparfanUSA]

yes, just took the ones in the picture out

 

[padam]

It looks like your parts are mismatched.

Another possibility is that as you face the flywheel, the friction surface gets closer to the crankshaft mounting bolts. Could be interference there.

 

[moparfanUSA]

Padam, we just figured out that is more likely the problem. The bolts are bottoming out inside the flywheel and not tightening all the way be cause the flywheel has been resurfaced to many times ( or the people that do it took to much off.

 

[padam]

Padam, we just figured out that is more likely the problem. The bolts are bottoming out inside the flywheel and not tightening all the way be cause the flywheel has been resurfaced to many times ( or the people that do it took to much off.

Oh, the pp bolts. Not exactly what I talking about, but makes perfect sense.