440 engine help

[Garys1969RR]

Sounds like a great combo. Let us know how well it runs! A centrifugal advance limit in the distributor of 18 crankshaft degrees will help. Then (with no vacumn advance) set initial timing at 18 to 20 degrees of advance, 38 total. That helps low RPM torque a lot.

 

[mike1965]

I used a 78 block to build my stroker 514 turbo motor we replaced all 5 main caps with billet ones and added a 7/16's main stud gurdle and head studs
here's some pix

 

[plymouthman]

Mike1965, that looks amazing. Would love having that sitting in my garage waiting too be dropped between the frame rails of my roadrunner.

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Well I thought I had a 69 440 but I brought it in the garage and took some carb cleaner and a stiff wire brush to the numbers and found that it's actually a 67. Date code: 10-12-67. 2536430-7 , it's all original from the holley ( list 4440-1 ) to the oil pan.
Have to do some checking on this one now. Not sure if it's going to me me up on my original plans or not

 

[plymouthman]

OK all. I have a chance to get a .060 440. But it's a marine block. What is the difference between the marine block and a car block. I've read that the only difference is the cam and the revere rotation crank. Can that block be used

 

[GearAddict]

.060" over already? freshly machined or with miles on it?

Sorry, that I'm not answering the Marine block question (cause I don't know the answer), but typically buying a block that has miles on it that is already .060 over is not a good idea, since if you had to rebuild it, you won't be able to machine it any further.

 

[plymouthman]

Fresh. No miles. Never been put back together

 

[plymouthman]

Well I went and picked up the .060 over 440 block and forged steel crank today. Ready to take it to the machine shop , as soon as I can get off of work early enough that it's.
I'm having them do a final hone ( if needed) , clean , install can bearings and freeze plugs , put together the bottom end and degree the cam.. In letting them get the bearings.
My question is do I need an internal or external flexplate. I need that before I take it all to the machine shop for balancing. Thank you in advance.

 

[66Satellite47]

Man, you sure have wandered a long way around. How do you know it's a marine block? My recollection is they had some different cooling holes in the deck,, not sure. If the crank is forged, I presume it's internal balanced, but ??? On your '67 block ( most surely from a '68 model vehicle), did it have the reinforcing rib above the freeze plugs? Just curious.

 

[plymouthman]

That's what the guy said. Other than thati don't really know if it's a marine block.
Forged steel crank , not from the marine block though. And yes internally balanced. As for the 67 block, it's a complete engine , tranny still attached to it. Never pulled it apart.

 

[66Satellite47]

OK, when you asked about "internal or external flexplate", cast cranks have external balance on the damper & converter. The only time I've seen the flex plate balanced is when I used the full circle B&M flex plate. The machinist balanced the crank, damper AND B&M flexplate for the aftermarket pistons and .010/.010 ground crank. Sorry I got confused that the marine block is a different one from the '67. Like I said the thing I think I remember about marine blocks is I think the water passages on the deck were bigger like newer castings and MAYBE thicker cylinder walls??.

I was asking about ribs on the '67 block because it seems they added the ribs on the outside above the freeze plugs sometime during the '68 model year, not sure when.

 

[plymouthman]

OK ,I went and picked up that .060 440 block and crank and dropped it off at the machine shop. The cylinder walls micked at. 4.376. Rough bore and ball honed. Having them finish hone , put together the short block and degree the cam.
I was messing with my 915 heads last nite , checking the valve spring installed heights with a spring mic. And the numbers were all over the the place

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Seat load is 1.900"
Here's the numbers left to right for one head. And both heads are very similar to each other
1.810
1.925
1.925
1.835
1.815
1.930
1.945
1.815
I know I add shims for the taller ones but what am I supposed to do for the shorter ones ? Even .050 locks won't be enough.
How far can I have the heads machined ? Or are these heads just boat anchors ???

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And before anyone asks , I did use the comp cams spring mic that is for the springs I have.

 

[mentor70]

you may have to change retainers if you cant get the short one in.

 

[plymouthman]

I called my machineist and he said the spring pockets may need cut down or the valve job that was done before (by a different shop) may not have been done even across the head. Which means they may need a value job.
I have a set out 452 and 906 heads I may end up having to use.
Is not in the budget for a new set of heads.
I got the 915 heads on a trade. I think I got the sit end of the deal on that one. I traded some good parts for these heads. One of which was a brand new 750 speed demon still in the box , complete 73 roadrunner rallye gauge cluster and a few other parts.

 

[plymouthman]

Well I'm dropping my heads off to a friend of mine. He has been doing head work for like 30 years , said he would straighten them out for me with a value job and if needed cut the seats down. And for minimal cash. Which is amazing cause this build is quickly eating up my already small budget.

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I downloaded a virtual dyno and put in my engines specs and it is telling me that it will make 504.58 HP. Just curious, with my build,, how close do you experienced guys think that is ?
73 440 .060 over
Forged flat top pistons , no valve reliefs
Forged steel stock stroke crank
Stock rods
Comp cams 510 cam ( crb3-xe284h-10 )
Matching lifters and springs
Hooked headers ( 1 7\8 tubes - 3 " collectors )
Doubl Roller timing chain
915 heads,( valve job , ported , gasket matched and polished )
Offenhauser power port 360 dual plane tunnel ram
Holley 750 double pump race carb
Electronic distributor
Just curious ,
I have all the parts now , and that's what I'm building. I will however be saving my pennies for a good set of heads and maybe a street tunnel ram with dual 4s later but for now , this is all I have.

 

[plymouthman]

Well I got a phone call today from the machine shop, the rods I traded some good parts for are crap. Scrap metal at best. So I went back to my garage and pulled the rods out of the 75 engine I had just laying their. Now I need a set of pins and rings. Machine shop said the pins are scarred real bad and the rings are old. They won't use them. that pretty much just added another $400 onto the bill. Which was already $1,100.
Clean block , finish hone the bores , install cam bearings and freeze plugs , balance bottom end , put together short block , and degree the cam the supply all bearings ($1,100 )
Now that an up ,,, $200 to re condition rods , new rings, new wrist pins. At $1,500. Now

 

[Garys1969RR]

You definitely want to put new piston rings in when you re build an engine. Best to do it all right the first time. That tunnel ram should work well, some articles have showed it producing the best torque and horse power numbers. Is that a 2-4 barrel top or single carb? Good luck! The STR can work well but is difficult to tune and set up.

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Let us know how well it all works.

 

[plymouthman]

Running a single 750 holley duel feed double pumper. If rather have the dual feed single pumper but I have t to run what I have for now.
I'm looking at distributors now, thinking about an HEI distributor.
Any sudjestions ????

 

[IQ52]

Best for my money, FireCore50 makes a ready-to-run w/vacuum advance or a more race distributor w/out vacuum advance that requires an ignition box. Both incorporate infinitely adjustable mechanical advance. Excellent distributor.

 

[plymouthman]

I can't seem to find anything on that distributor for the big block. I can only find it for the small block. I'm actually considering to just use the factory distributor that came in the 75 440 and just put in lighter springs.
Any other ideas or considerations , help ?
This is going to be a street driven car for 99.5% of the time. I've never raced at the track but my buddy used to race shag rat a 69 camaro back in the day , he say's we are going to take it to the track when it's done and run it. He say's that may just change my mind about racing it on a regular basis. Guess we will see
For now I just want it set for the street. I'm figuring using a vacuum advance since it's a street car

 

[plymouthman]

Little uptight, , haven't heard anything from my machine shop so I got off of work early and speed in to get a peak at what's going on. Nothing, he said we haven't touched your stuff because we had a couple race engines come in that need to be done. What the hell ? First come first served right ?? He hasn't even ordered any of the bearings yet. Has anyone else had to deal with this crap. I guess my small cost build isn't bringing in the big dollars that the big rave engines are. I get nocked to the end of the line. Pissed off