Carter AFB restoration

[62 Dart Convertible]

The dual plane would probably be a better choice but it is what it is. That MoPar .528" (if that's the cam you're talking about) is a good one. I ran one in a 383 and it put my 3700 lb RR into the high 12's. And it is on a 112 LSA. It's also a upper mid range cam so still might not be the best for that stock intake.

11:1!!! You won't have problems with too little cylinder pressure! That might be a little much even for that new cam you have.

Can't wait to see some pretty pics!

As long as I ran 95 or 98 fuel, I had no probs with that CR. I bought a timing tape so I will be paying close attention to total advance once it's running again.
I admit I'm a little concerned now that I have a little too much cam for this intake set up... Last thing I need is to have to muck around with jetting in 2 OEM carbs to get it to run well... It's lunch time here, and I will post pics of clean castings in about 6 hours time...

 

[Meep-Meep]

I think the key to that intake is not too much overlap. But how much is too much is the $10,000.00 question. As a best guess less than 48 degrees of overlap might be fine but 60+ might be too much.

 

[62 Dart Convertible]

I had a look at the cam card and it doesn't state the overlap spec. I know it is calculated from the exhaust closing and intake opening event angles, but these are only stated at .050"...
Edit - I think I've worked out how to calculate it, and if I'm right it's 55 degrees....

Here are the carb castings. The finish is very nice and certainly not porous like dry glass can leave them :sunny:

 

[Meep-Meep]

WoW! Those look fantastic! When I did my hemi carbs my guy used a #13 media dry and they came out very similar to yours (as best as I can tell in the pic). Best I can describe is the finished product had a sparkly look to them; not chalky or pitted like coarse glass or sand.

 

[62 Dart Convertible]

Finishes sound very similar to me Meep. They certainly are a little sparkly.

I've been doing more thinking and calculating regarding my cam selection. I found this handy guide to calculate cam overlap - (I used method 2 as I don't have a cam card for the MP solid.) -

http://members.uia.net/pkelley2/Overlap.html

The MP .528" solid that came out my engine had 284/284 adv. duration, 112 LSA. Lunati hydraulic going in has 271/280 adv. duration, 110 LSA. Using the calculation, MP had 60 deg overlap, Lunati has 55 deg overlap. With cam specs, is overlap the single biggest detractor to low speed performance? Would it be reasonable to expect my idle vacuum and low speed performance to improve marginally?:eusa_pray:

 

[Meep-Meep]

I ran that .528" and it was a great cam in my 383 but it did want a lot of gear and a single plane intake. Sort of deceiving on how mellow it idled. I ran that dual quad intake and carbs (383 version) with a 108 deg LSA cam and it slowed the car down quite a bit. The torker and Holley ran circles around it. That cam was an Isky 280 deg (224 @ .050") and pretty lumpy.

The purpose of more overlap is to increase scavenging at high RPM, but if you don't spend much time at high RPM why have it? Idle vacuum will drop with more overlap but peak torque will actually increase, but at a higher RPM. The correct answer is to select a cam that will provide the most average power within the target RPM range. You have the intake selected, the gears, the car weight, converter (or 4 spd), exhaust (logs or headers). All that matters. I wish I had more experience running that divided plenum intake.

From what I have read and put into practice it's easy to over cam. I picked the MoPar .455 / 272 for my 440 and was pleasantly surprised. It's a 48 deg overlap cam on a 112 LSA and runs perfect with a stock dual plane 4 BBL intake. It does seem to run out of power about 5500 RPM, which for the street is fine. The factory six pack however is not so happy, but I think it needs jetting because it's lean according to the O2 sensor. Just throwing out some examples.

That cam you have certainly doesn't sound over kill but I'm wondering about the 55 deg of over lap. Perhaps it's better suited for a free flowing dual plane? Maybe ask Lunati how they tested it.

 

[62 Dart Convertible]

Hi Meep

I did contact Lunati regarding cam choice some time ago. I went right into every detail about my set up, and received a 3 word answer from them, like "Yes, good choice". I was expecting a bit more from them...

I know from reading their information on the Voodoo range of cams, that for my set up, the ideal choice was the cam below this one. I was/am still willing to sacrifice a little driveability for a little bit of a "rumpy-rumpy". The car is a weekend cruiser, so a little attitude will be appreciated.

From the specs I posted and the overlaps I calculated, would you expect idle quality and vacuum to be better with the Lunati than with the MP?

EDIT - I took your advice and emailed Lunati again and asked more specific questions.

 

[Meep-Meep]

Just going off the fact you have more overlap than me I'd suspect your idle vacuum and quality would be slightly worse. And if there is something that carbs really like it's a good strong vacuum signal.

I too would like more than a three word answer, preferably from someone who knows something about cams. When in doubt I limit my choices to the published RPM range where I'll be spending most of my time. It might help to contact a few other cam grinders and get their perspective. You may also want to contact Dema Elgin for further advice http://www.elgincams.com/ After all he learned how to grind cams from Ed Winfield so he might know something.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, you mean better idle quality than the MP .528"? I suspect slightly better. I have the MP .455" and it has a very pleasing rhythm to it. What I should do is post a video of my car running. Only problem is I have no idea how to get the file small enough to get it on here.

 

[62 Dart Convertible]

Hi Meep

Yes I was asking about the comparison between my old cam and the new cam I'm fitting. The old cam was quite bearable so if the Lunati has no worse idle quality, I will be pleased.

I am committed to this cam, I was just trying to best adjust my expectations. I'll see what Lunati come back with when they feel like replying.

Currently having a break from assembling carbs. It's slow going, but I will get there. I'll post a pic when I have something worthy.

 

[62 Dart Convertible]

Getting this thread back on topic, I spent yesterday cleaning small parts like booster venturis and floats, and assembling carb bases. Of the whole caper, I was most nervous about reinstalling shafts and throttle blades, but it surprised me how straightforward it was. The blades are better centred in the bores now than they were when I disassembled them. I am enjoying doing this on the kitchen bench too as it is so bloody cold in the garage!! I hope to get close to finishing them today. If not, there's always tomorrow.
Pics -

 

[Meep-Meep]

Beautiful! These are going to look so good when they are done you won't want to put gas in them.

Don't forget to stake the throttle blade screws. I give them a whack with a punch while supporting the screw head with a solid piece of bar stock. That way the force doesn't transfer to the shaft and bend it.

 

[tallhair]

Getting this thread back on topic, I spent yesterday cleaning small parts like booster venturis and floats, and assembling carb bases. Of the whole caper, I was most nervous about reinstalling shafts and throttle blades, but it surprised me how straightforward it was. The blades are better centred in the bores now than they were when I disassembled them. I am enjoying doing this on the kitchen bench too as it is so bloody cold in the garage!! I hope to get close to finishing them today. If not, there's always tomorrow.
Pics -

It get's cold in the outback? Where are you southern Australia?

Carbs are looking sweet

 

[62 Dart Convertible]

You're right Meep, they look too nice to get dirty, but do I look forward to that nervous moment of cranking it over and firing it up for the first time....

Hey tallhair, I'm in Adelaide (state capital of South Australia) and it doesn't get freezing here on the plains, but the maximum today was 53 deg F (12 deg C in my money). Adelaide Hills (our very small mountain range) did have snow fall yesterday for the first and likely only time this year. Cold and lonely in the shed, inside with the heater on was much more civilised, plus I can watch football on TV! (Who said guys can't multi-task?!) We consider "The Outback" to be central Australia, of which most is desert, and yes it does get below freezing there!!

One carb done, one more to go -

 

[tallhair]

The carb looks great.

Ha ha, yeah I was kidding about the outback LOL. Looks like a nice place. Do you like Baseball? I've watched a little of the Australian Baseball Championships when I remember to catch it.

 

[62 Dart Convertible]

Lovely autumn shots tallhair, it's the depths of winter here atm. Baseball on TV?! It doesn't get any air time here. Looking forward to seeing MotoGP from Laguna Seca tonight :headbang:

My carbs are done!!! Ain't they pretty? :love7: (Now I can get on with bulding the engine.)

 

[tallhair]

yes they are .. what a nice matched set

 

[1962polara]

Nice work Frank .They really pop .
Looking forward to your engine rebuild thread

 

[Meep-Meep]

A work of art indeed! They will make a nice center piece on the dining room table until you have to use them.

 

[62 Dart Convertible]

A work of art indeed! They will make a nice center piece on the dining room table until you have to use them.

Thanks Meep. When I cleared the carbs out of the kitchen, I jokingly asked my wife for a hand to bring the block in to the kitchen to start assembling it - if looks could kill I wouldn't be writing this now:icon_lol:

From your suggestion, I sent the following question to Lunati the other day -

Hi There
I have a Chrysler 413 with a factory dual quad intake. This is a divided single plane manifold design, which is known for sensitivity to cam overlap. I have driven it for the last year with a MP solid cam (0.528" lift, 284/284 adv dur, 112 LSA, 60 deg overlap) and idle quality and low speed performance was adequate. I am currently rebuilding this engine and will be fitting your Voodoo 268 hydraulic. As you would know, it has 110 LSA and 55 deg overlap.
Here is my question - would it be reasonable to expect a better idle quality and higher vacuum with your cam?

and yes, you guessed it, another 3 word reply -

Yes it would.

I guess the question pretty much deserved a yes/no answer, and it does give me some comfort.

I will start another thread soon to cover the engine rebuild:toothy10:

 

[Meep-Meep]

I have a buddy that had a 427 side oiler in his kitchen so why not a 413 in the dining room? I currently have a set of magnesium American's in my living room. Oh, and did I mention neither of us is married?

Yep, the classic three word reply. It appears that Lunati closes the intake fairly early to preserve cylinder pressure but makes it up with an aggressive ramp rate. A cam like this may require more spring then a comparable grind so service life will tend to be shorter. They say these cams make good power but I have no experience with them.