Clutch pedal issue

[Paul73]

So I just installed a new ram clutch in my 4 speed 69 roadrunner and for some reason the pedal only wants to stay half way up. It’s done this ever since I bought the car and before I swapped the clutch. I can move it all the way up with my hand and when I push it down, it shoots back down to half travel. I have the throw out bearing spaced out about 1/8 inch or so from the clutch fingers which I heard was fine but I don’t think the pedal is supposed to stick up. I’ve never done a clutch swap before so I don’t exactly know what I’m doing wrong and yes, I was following the factory service manual. Or at least I was trying to… Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Paul_B]

Is your new clutch a diaphragm type clutch? Some clutches require the over center spring in the clutch pedal under the dash to be removed.

 

[Paul73]

I believe it is… not too sure how to differentiate between the different types but here’s what it looks like. I had a good friend recommend this clutch so that’s how I ended up with it.

 

[dadsbee]

That's a "Borg and Beck" pressure plate, requires the over center spring to be on your clutch pedal.

 

[moparedtn]

That's a Borg & Beck (3 finger) style, not diaphragm.
You've got the same clutch as I do - and mine does the same thing.
I just stick my toes under the pedal and lift it back up when it does.
I can't believe it's a product of a weak over-center spring - I think it's inherent
to that particular pressure plate.

In fact, I dislike that clutch so much I had Dan Brewer send me another B&B setup to
swap this one out, even though it's only got a couple thousand miles on it.

 

[Paul73]

That's a Borg & Beck (3 finger) style, not diaphragm.
You've got the same clutch as I do - and mine does the same thing.
I just stick my toes under the pedal and lift it back up when it does.
I can't believe it's a product of a weak over-center spring - I think it's inherent
to that particular pressure plate.

In fact, I dislike that clutch so much I had Dan Brewer send me another B&B setup to
swap this one out, even though it's only got a couple thousand miles on it.

Oh okay, I did not know that. That seems kinda ridiculous they wouldn’t make it to fit the stock spring and I really don’t want to pull my trans out again… do they make a different over center spring that will work with this pressure plate?

 

[moparedtn]

Oh okay, I did not know that. That seems kinda ridiculous they wouldn’t make it to fit the stock spring and I really don’t want to pull my trans out again… do they make a different over center spring that will work with this pressure plate?

If that's the direction you want to go, a new over-center spring would no doubt be stiffer than the one you have.
Probably will be enough to overcome the new clutch.
Me, I just don't like how the clutch feels or operates, so I'm taking the opportunity to replace it outright.

 

[dadsbee]

? is, is your over center spring even there?

And that said, do you have the correct throw out bearing and not a thinner one meant for a Hemi plate?

I have three cars with BnB's, 2 are 383 x 23 spine and 1 x 426 and 18 spline. All pedals come all the way up, as they should.

 

[moparedtn]

? is, is your over center spring even there?

And that said, do you have the correct throw out bearing and not a thinner one meant for a Hemi plate?

I have three cars with BnB's, 2 are 383 x 23 spine and 1 x 426 and 18 spline. All pedals come all the way up, as they should.

It's that particular make and model of clutch in this case methinks - not of it being a B&B in general.
Oh - and keep in mind, he probably didn't replace every....single....part with new like you do.

 

[Paul73]

Yes, the spring is there. I am running the throw out bearing that came with the kit. The website (passon performance) said it was for a 23 spline, 143 tooth flywheel. It looks like the same throw out bearing that was in it previously. I just got off the phone with passon and they said to check the air gap and make sure it 60 thousandths of an inch so I’ll check that later with someone stepping on the pedal and me measuring.

 

[dadsbee]

LOL Ed. Original pedal spring in my Bee, purty damn sure in the HP2 and the Barracuda as well.

Another question is "whos" pressure plate is that and what model. They all look the same to the most extent.

When I picked up the Wife's Barracuda the clutch pedal was down like that. Found the throw out push rod had a normal nut on it that could easily back off. Put a proper locking nut on and set it up from underneath, with the pedal fully up.

Something is wrong with the OP's set up with that throw out rod threaded out to max length and the pedal still won't come up. Here's the 383 Barracuda with clutch set correctly... showing the thread left out the back. I know the A body uses a different length rod but there should be some threads out the rear to keep the push rod from falling out of the fork.

Here's my Bee set up.. that's using an A body push rod that migrated to the car in '78. Lock clip not yet dedicated to the job.

 

[moparedtn]

Yes, the spring is there. I am running the throw out bearing that came with the kit. The website (passon performance) said it was for a 23 spline, 143 tooth flywheel. It looks like the same throw out bearing that was in it previously. I just got off the phone with passon and they said to check the air gap and make sure it 60 thousandths of an inch so I’ll check that later with someone stepping on the pedal and me measuring.

The pedal is "sticking" right where full engagement of the clutch is occuring - in your case, I believe you said
"halfway". If that's the case, the gap adjustment of the throwout is going to be fairly close - but yes, that needs
to be checked as much for future wear on components as anything else.

See, here's the thing about the over-center spring:
It's not only in charge of returning the pedal to the upright position, but it also is charged with aiding in the depressing
of the pedal as well (sort of a pedal assist, if you will).
The point where it stops doing one of those and begins doing the other is right about halfway in pedal travel, which
is where your pedal is "sticking" now (as is mine).
One would therefore think a pedal height adjustment (via the air gap) one way or the other would get the spring
away from that "equilibrium" point in the middle and it then would be more apt to return the pedal all the way up?

 

[dadsbee]

Yes, the spring is there. I am running the throw out bearing that came with the kit. The website (passon performance) said it was for a 23 spline, 143 tooth flywheel. It looks like the same throw out bearing that was in it previously. I just got off the phone with passon and they said to check the air gap and make sure it 60 thousandths of an inch so I’ll check that later with someone stepping on the pedal and me measuring.

Tie the pedal up to the steering wheel, then get under and see what your gap is. I can't even see the throw out with a Lakewood drum in the way, so I just pull the fork end back at the adjuster and set for 1/8" or so. What concerns me is that your adjuster is already threaded all the way out to full length. Why I questioned if you had the thinner hemi throw out bearing vs the 383 one.

 

[R413]

Something to watch is the thickness of the flywheel. After multiple turnings they get thin. Clutch adjustment should fix that pedal, but the adjustment rod is at or near the end. Get a longer adjuster rod.

 

[moparedtn]

LOL Ed. Original pedal spring in my Bee, purty damn sure in the HP2 and the Barracuda as well.

Another question is "whos" pressure plate is that and what model. They all look the same to the most extent.

When I picked up the Wife's Barracuda the clutch pedal was down like that. Found the throw out push rod had a normal nut on it that could easily back off. Put a proper locking nut on and set it up from underneath, with the pedal fully up.

Something is wrong with the OP's set up with that throw out rod threaded out to max length and the pedal still won't come up. Here's the 383 Barracuda with clutch set correctly... showing the thread left out the back. I know the A body uses a different length rod but there should be some threads out the rear to keep the push rod from falling out of the fork.
View attachment 1579955

Here's my Bee set up.. that's using an A body push rod that migrated to the car in '78. Lock clip not yet dedicated to the job.
View attachment 1579960

With the RAM units, the PP as well as the springs in the disc are colored by model. I do indeed have the
exact same deal as he does...
All that said, he's either got some wrong components (like you suggest) or his over-center is weak or something
like that.

Looking at your pics is always a treat - your work is very nice, of course!
Check what's under Fred for comparison:

That's a new clutch rod and they come bent like that. Makes for goofy engagement at the fork for sure.
I'm tempted to do some heatin' and bendin' when I redo this clutch to make it all straight and purty
like yours though.

Oh, the clutch in Fred is identical to the OP's:

It's supposed to be their "performance" line...

 

[Paul73]

Tie the pedal up to the steering wheel, then get under and see what your gap is. I can't even see the throw out with a Lakewood drum in the way, so I just pull the fork end back at the adjuster and set for 1/8" or so. What concerns me is that your adjuster is already threaded all the way out to full length. Why I questioned if you had the thinner hemi throw out bearing vs the 383 one.

Yes that concerns me as well, I bought that adjuster rod (I can’t remember where) and the bag it came in said it was for a big block/small block 66/70 b body but it does seem very short. The adjuster rod it had before was a peice of all thread welded to a nut very poorly so I thought it would be better to buy the right one. Might need a longer one.

 

[moparedtn]

Tie the pedal up to the steering wheel, then get under and see what your gap is. I can't even see the throw out with a Lakewood drum in the way, so I just pull the fork end back at the adjuster and set for 1/8" or so. What concerns me is that your adjuster is already threaded all the way out to full length. Why I questioned if you had the thinner hemi throw out bearing vs the 383 one.

I totally missed the part of the adjustment being all the way out. My bad.
Yep, something ain't right for real there.

 

[moparedtn]

Yes that concerns me as well, I bought that adjuster rod (I can’t remember where) and the bag it came in said it was for a big block/small block 66/70 b body but it does seem very short. The adjuster rod it had before was a peice of all thread welded to a nut very poorly so I thought it would be better to buy the right one. Might need a longer one.

Mine's the same length (bought new from Brewer's) and my adjustment is way different than yours.
Something whacky going on with your setup; Dad may be right about a wrong throwout or maybe a
bent/wrong linkage - or the fork even? Maybe the pivot in the bell?
Hell, do we know it's even an 11" bell?

 

[dadsbee]

Yes that concerns me as well, I bought that adjuster rod (I can’t remember where) and the bag it came in said it was for a big block/small block 66/70 b body but it does seem very short. The adjuster rod it had before was a peice of all thread welded to a nut very poorly so I thought it would be better to buy the right one. Might need a longer one.

Post a WTB for an A body throw out rod.. they are longer as show in both the pictures I posted above..

Another thought, how are the delrin bushings in your torque bar? Are they fresh or worn out??

 

[Paul73]

Post a WTB for an A body throw out rod.. they are longer as show in both the pictures I posted above..

Another thought, how are the delrin bushings in your torque bar? Are they fresh or worn out??
View attachment 1579975

They are new.