Cooling not worth a SH!T

Heating, Cooling & AC

  1. HT413

    HT413 Semi Pro Bowler

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    I wouldn’t do the towel thing or use any other thing to reach into the fan while running - just asking for trouble there. Think about what a ‘good’ result would be - the towel ripping out of your hand and...

    If you’re somehow looking to confirm, just have someone shut it down at temperature and immediately try to turn the fan while holding the pulley (after it comes to a stop). The clutch won’t cool down in half a second, just like it won’t heat up in half a second.

    Oh, and you might be able to turn those derale blades around and turn them into pushers... then mount them on the front side of the rad.

    My 451 is probably in the low 500hp range and the (very nice) custom Mancini radiator with 5 blade fan and Hayden clutch struggles in idle / high heat / high humidity situations. The 2 pusher fans do the trick and drop her right down to the stat temperature in seconds.
     
  2. Yatzee

    Yatzee Well-Known Member

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    The very first thing you need to do is to ensure that your actually getting the right temperature reading from your gauge. Wouldn't be the first time that a temperature gauge was wrong. If you're using an aftermarket gauge be sure the sensor is in the correct spot to read engine coolant discharge temperature. If you have decent air flow, mix of 70/30, 160* stat, timing set correct, a shroud, 16 lb cap and good coolant flow, there is one other experiment you can try. Turn the inside heater on max temp and air flow and see if there is any change in engine temperature. If there's a slight drop in engine temperature this will indicate that the coolant system ( as a whole) is undersized for the amount of btu's your engine is producing. Your heater acts as an "extra" cooling system. If this is the case when the heaters on you'll need to revisit your radiator air flow, or any other component you believe adequet but really isn't. A heater core can dissipate as much as 12 - 15 thousand btu's. If you've bypassed the heater core you may have reduced the volume of total available coolant by as much as 10% which will also contribute to excessive engine temperatures. The 16 lb. cap coupled with the high flow pump ensures that there are no steam or air pockets in the coolant jackets of the engine. My problem was similar to yours with my 512 / 635HP stroker and I had to do a bit of a radical change to get it to under-cool.
     
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    • Mike67

      Mike67 Well-Known Member

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      I read every post and haven't seen this asked yet but are the fan blades about a 1/4-1/3 of the way outside of the shroud? If to far inset the blades could cavitate the air.
      Also you mentioned what I think is the answer earlier, it's air flow, so are you sure that the fan is not pulling air from around the radiator instead of through? Make sure all the little gaps and so forth...
      Best of luck!
       
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      • Billccm

        Billccm Well-Known Member

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        I'm just thinking out loud here. If the radiator at idle is removing 46 degrees of heat, and a box fan did not alleviate the temp issue, then perhaps the cooling system is inadequate.

        Air flow and radiator seem to be acceptable if 46 degrees of heat is removed. I measured that number and @threewood measures the same in his set up.

        So having said all that, is 240 coolant entering the radiator?
         
      • 65RoadRacer

        65RoadRacer Well-Known Member

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        Evans is good stuff, no doubt. But there are some downfalls.
        You can't have more than 3% water in the system already, it needs to be 100% Evans.
        You can't have any green coolant, so you need to completely flush the block and cooling system entirely.
        Evans Prep Fluid is used to completely flush the old stuff out: $30-35
        If you have a leak, you can't put straight water in to get you home, so you have to have at least an extra gallon handy... or get towed home.
        It's supposed to be "for the life of the engine" but how many times have you gone 80,000 miles and not see anything 'dirty' in your coolant?
        It's pricey: $47-60 per gallon, you need at least 3 gallons, 4 if you're keeping one in the car for potential leaks.
        If you can afford all of that, go for it, but all it really does is raise the boiling point, it doesn't guarantee to drop your temperatures. It's just advertised to be waterless to reduce corrosion.
        Most people who have it are happy, however.
         
      • 5.7 hemi

        5.7 hemi FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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        Did stop the engine at 220, immediately turned the fan with almost zero resistance.

        No ac/heater box in the car yet, saving up for that.

        Fan sticks out of the shroud about 1/2”. When the engine is first started, dead cold, fan output is GREAT, as temp rises the amount of air decreases but should increase as the clutch starts to lock up/engage.

        The radiator is tight to the core since I moved it back to gain clearance for a clutch fan. It can’t help but pull air thru the core, I made damn sure of that.

        My instrument gauge and Holley Terminator sensor are both in agreement, so I’m sure they are correct as I can watch the temp drop when it hits 180 (t-stat opening temp).

        So in conclusion, I’ve determined that both clutches are crap, and I’m heading for electric fan(s). Which this also means that my Borgenson power steering set up will have to be replaced by my manual box sitting in the shed as I need that space for a fan(s).
         
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        • Ranger16

          Ranger16 Well-Known Member

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          Hemi, you said "Water flow is incredible!" as well as a "high flow" thermostat.

          Have you considered the possibility that maybe your coolant flow is too fast? Is that even possible? I suspect it is. How fast is too fast, I don't know, but common sense would tell us that if the coolant passes through the radiator too fast, it won't have enough time to give up its heat. Try restricting your flow a bit with a normal thermostat or even clamping down a bit on the radiator hose and see if that makes any difference. It would be an easy test sure can't hurt. Sometimes the solution is right in front of us, but too obvious to see. Been there, done that before.
           
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          • Sixpactogo

            Sixpactogo Well-Known Member

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            I remember Bob at Glen-ray radiators told me that a good clutch fan or thermo fan should only make about 1.5 - 2 turns when you spin it by hand. He also said the fan should be about 1/2" from the radiator. It sounds to me that both of your thermo fans are junk. Also maybe you could go with another 1/4" longer shaft with a new thermo unit. I would get with the Hayden people to see what they have to say.
             
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            • 5.7 hemi

              5.7 hemi FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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              I called Hayden yesterday and the tech department was closed at noon for Easter weekend. I’ll call back Monday.

              The water barely moved with my other pump, at least with the Flowkooler pump, I can actually see it moving.
               
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              • oldbee

                oldbee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                I think ‘ranger’ might be on to something here. I’ve seen clutches that didn’t spin as hard when hot&shutoff as you would think they should,but they still did the job.Maybe block the rad with some cardboard & see if they do try to start moving some air, but I don’t think I’d go over 220*. Personally I don’t trust any “new” parts anymore.
                 
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                • 5.7 hemi

                  5.7 hemi FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                  Spent today figuring out the cooling and I KICKED IT’S ASS!

                  Power steering pump had to be removed and unless I go to a type 2 pump, power steering is out, manual to go back in.

                  The Derale dual fan set up fit like a glove. It works awesome! The PWM is very cool, ramps up slowly and also runs for a 30 seconds after shut off.

                  Don’t mind the messy engine compartment, things were done so I could test, it’ll be cleaned up. I have the temp set to come on at 187/188 and it cools down pretty damn fast to 180. I still need to experiment with the settings, but for now it’s good.

                  4AF6AF57-9F3A-4FEB-8F41-6F5CACD6F86D.jpeg A0E859DE-4A7B-4942-B695-A6360F3305B5.jpeg 3437CF2B-B8F1-47D3-8FF5-B9C9E616FD80.jpeg
                   
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                  • 5.7 hemi

                    5.7 hemi FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                    Forgot, the water pump pulley bolts self clearanced the plastic on the fan rib about .030. My eyeball thought I had room, but the reality was it wasn’t enough.
                     
                  • Sixpactogo

                    Sixpactogo Well-Known Member

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                    Glad to hear you got it to play by the rules. I still think if you wanted to keep the Borgeson, you would need a good Thermo fan clutch.
                     
                  • 5.7 hemi

                    5.7 hemi FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                    I still can keep power steering, I’ll just need to get a type 2 pump, brackets, pulley and make some hoses along with a remote resovoir.

                    I’m just not sure I want to spend the money for all that. I can sell off the box and pump, cooler and lines and then get some bigger torsion bars.
                     
                  • Ski 61701

                    Ski 61701 Well-Known Member

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                    How much motor movement do you have aka rocking when you get on it? Or brake torque? Just asking since you said the pulley bolts self clearanced on the shroud.
                    Nor trying to be a buzz kill, but hate to see something else give you grief, especially if your 50 miles from home.
                    Happy that its running cool for you.
                     
                  • 5.7 hemi

                    5.7 hemi FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                    The plastic rib on one of the lower fan shroud was a bit too close, I do have a 1/4” otherwise. Also running a Schumacher torque strap. That engine doesn’t move hardly any, but I’ll keep an eye on it.
                     
                  • Ski 61701

                    Ski 61701 Well-Known Member

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                    Nice.... time to enjoy it.

                    Do you like the torque strap?
                     
                  • 5.7 hemi

                    5.7 hemi FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                    It’s really a nice piece. For 80 bucks or so it’s well worth it. Plus if your active duty or a Veteran, Schumacher gives a discount.

                    Can’t wait to drop the hammer!!
                     
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                    • khryslerkid

                      khryslerkid FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                      You don't mess around! Glad you got it figured out:thumbsup:
                       
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                      • oldbee

                        oldbee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                        Knew there was a reason I love manual steering!!
                         
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