Cooling system, wits end

[diesel_lv]

Tell me what it is . . .

Since you haven't researched the subject.... the factory water pump has 6 and nine vanes w no backing plate. As it rotates clockwise, it slings water out in a 360° circle. It does not somehow focus the water in a specific direction, it is centrifugal force. Water comes up from radiator into housing and out of housing into engine. Reverse rotation pump has anti-cavitaion plate on stock pump or Flowkooler pump. This also slings water out in 360° circle, again, centrifugal force. Water comes up from radiator into housing and out of housing into engine.

 

[diesel_lv]

Sounds like you have the solution and really didn't want any input...

Other than just now thinking about a larger surface area radiator, I am not sure of your reference. If you saw a solution I mentioned, please tell me. Thanks.

 

[diesel_lv]

As for some of my "short" comments above, I was very specific/articulate in the description in original post. Not a fan of half reading/comprehending something and replying to it.

 

[coloradodave]

Shims to space your water pump pulley out a tad: https://www.summitracing.com/search...rder=Ascending&keyword=water pump pully shims

 

[Nate S]

For starters I think you’ve done well already. Keeping it as cool as it is already in that ferocious heat is an accomplishment. Any of the rest of us would be high giving each other high fives because our “hot” days are 95 or similar.

No such thing as too much flow. The faster it goes the more turbulent it is. The more turbulent it is the better the heat transfers. With large radiators you need more flow to keep it turbulent. Is it a big fin high flow water pump? Is it spinning at least as fast as factory? You’ll remember that factory AC cars had a little pump pulley for more overdrive.

Another thing to look at is the coolant itself. If you’re at 50/50 mix, you could drop to 75 water / 25 glycol. Water has a much higher specific heat and lower viscosity. Carries more heat and is more turbulent.

Another good check is for blocked internal radiator fins. Newer radiators have smaller passages and clog easier. On some cars you can do this with your hands, yours doesn’t sound that way. Thermocouple would work. Get it behind the radiator and look at the temp in all areas. They should all be equally hot. If an area (or vertical stripe) is cool, you’ve got a plugged fin(s).

Last thing is that it’s nice and dry in Arizona. That means the dew point is low. Evaporating water makes things a LOT cooler. Put a large washer reservoir and pump from a new car behind the grill and in front of the radiator. Put a couple spray nozzles pointing at the radiator. Hook a thermostat up so that when the air behind the radiator goes over ? 200 ? The sprayer turns on. It’ll cool quickly and shut back off but will also cool the car. Doesn’t take much water. Not good for road trips but for a 45 minute ride down the highway probably fine. Jug in the trunk to refill. Water is cheap.

 

[diesel_lv]

Shims to space your water pump pulley out a tad: https://www.summitracing.com/search?SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=water pump pully shims

Thank you. Much easier than trying to make them.

 

[diesel_lv]

For starters I think you’ve done well already. Keeping it as cool as it is already in that ferocious heat is an accomplishment. Any of the rest of us would be high giving each other high fives because our “hot” days are 95 or similar.

No such thing as too much flow. The faster it goes the more turbulent it is. The more turbulent it is the better the heat transfers. With large radiators you need more flow to keep it turbulent. Is it a big fin high flow water pump? Is it spinning at least as fast as factory? You’ll remember that factory AC cars had a little pump pulley for more overdrive.

Another thing to look at is the coolant itself. If you’re at 50/50 mix, you could drop to 75 water / 25 glycol. Water has a much higher specific heat and lower viscosity. Carries more heat and is more turbulent.

Another good check is for blocked internal radiator fins. Newer radiators have smaller passages and clog easier. On some cars you can do this with your hands, yours doesn’t sound that way. Thermocouple would work. Get it behind the radiator and look at the temp in all areas. They should all be equally hot. If an area (or vertical stripe) is cool, you’ve got a plugged fin(s).

Last thing is that it’s nice and dry in Arizona. That means the dew point is low. Evaporating water makes things a LOT cooler. Put a large washer reservoir and pump from a new car behind the grill and in front of the radiator. Put a couple spray nozzles pointing at the radiator. Hook a thermostat up so that when the air behind the radiator goes over ? 200 ? The sprayer turns on. It’ll cool quickly and shut back off but will also cool the car. Doesn’t take much water. Not good for road trips but for a 45 minute ride down the highway probably fine. Jug in the trunk to refill. Water is cheap.

Engine only has 300 miles on it. Fresh build. Both radiators are brand new as well. The Flowkooler water pump at idle keeps temps in check w electric fans pulling enough air volume. Only issue w it is at highway speeds. I know 220 is really not that hot, but that is on flat n level at 60. Pulling a grade of any kind n it will go up. 2 ways out of my town, both have 7% grade uphill for over 10 miles. Yes, I am of the same thought, no such thing as too much flow. Robert Shaw thermostats were OE in '67. High flow thermostats.

 

[Nate S]

Also worth noting that a fresh build will run hotter for a while until it’s really broken in.

 

[coloradodave]

Thank you. Much easier than trying to make them.

You're welcome. I have read this over twice and I don't see what your total timing is at your 60 mph cruise rpm. Are you using your EFI to control timing?

 

[diesel_lv]

Also worth noting that a fresh build will run hotter for a while until it’s really broken in.

I certainly hope so. I built this to be a dependable daily driver. No fun if I can't drive it out of town.

 

[coloradodave]

Also worth noting that a fresh build will run hotter for a while until it’s really broken in.

Nate, some of us do have higher temperatures to contend with. We have had 3 weeks of temperatures between 100* to 111*. It's not Arizona, but it's HOT!

 

[diesel_lv]

You're welcome. I have read this over twice and I don't see what your total timing is at your 60 mph cruise rpm. Are you using your EFI to control timing?

I have distributor set for 18° initial mechanical. 16° mechanical advance at 3k for total of 34° total mechanical. I have set vacuum canister to give me 12° at idle using non ported vacuum. With 30° at idle, I can idle at 850 rpm and pull 14-15" of vacuum. Runs extremely smooth. Pulls very hard, starts easy even when 220°+.

 

[diesel_lv]

You're welcome. I have read this over twice and I don't see what your total timing is at your 60 mph cruise rpm. Are you using your EFI to control timing?

As to timing at 60mph, I don't know. I will have to see what my vacuum is, then disconnect vacuum n hook mityvac to distributor. Bring engine to 2400 rpm n pull that amount of vacuum n read timing marks.

 

[1967coronet]

I am thinking you should go back to the electric fans then find whats killing the air flow at highway speed, AC condenser, electric fan shroud ?

Try pumping the AC down and pulling the condenser out then take a drive.
I know that is alot of work but if it runs cool then you can find another style condenser or off set the mounting or mabey both.
That electric fan shroud can be killing air flow also at high way speed.

If that engine will idle under 200* at 112* temp I think you pretty close if you just get some more air moving.
Couple other things is you have to have that bottom splash panel in place under the rad support to the bumper back side and have a good seal from rad support to hood.

 

[theman440]

Since you haven't researched the subject.... the factory water pump has 6 and nine vanes w no backing plate. As it rotates clockwise, it slings water out in a 360° circle. It does not somehow focus the water in a specific direction, it is centrifugal force. Water comes up from radiator into housing and out of housing into engine. Reverse rotation pump has anti-cavitaion plate on stock pump or Flowkooler pump. This also slings water out in 360° circle, again, centrifugal force. Water comes up from radiator into housing and out of housing into engine.

"Since you haven't researched the subject...."

No research needed - just look at the housing, common sense says it's designed for a clockwise rotating pump. Maybe it doesn't matter but you can't yell me it won't affect the coolant flow with a counter clockwise pump.

Good luck . . .

 

[70chall440]

Just goes to show that more money and high speed stuff doesn't mean it will work...

 

[69 GTX]

So I'm going to assume your electric fans are pushers mounted on the front side of the radiator.
So idling the engine is creating the least amount of heat and the electric fans are cooling the engine. So I would probably take the water pump out of the mix. BTW are the electric fans in front of the condenser or between the condenser & radiator?
So when you hit the highway the electric fans won't keep up. I'm going to say now your engine is making more heat and those fans aren't doing the job because of the shroud they have. Also does your car have the tin work below from the radiator support to the bumper? If not this can allow air to go that way because of the path of least resistance.

 

[David Stillie]

My charger was running hot. I realized that I was missing the air shields that go on top of the front bumper brackets. They help direct the air through the radiator. Otherwise it bypasses the rad. The lower shield is also required.
Another thing I did was lower the front bumper to create a bigger gap between the bumper and grille, allowing more air flow.
Also, make sure you have the spring in the lower rad hose. They don't come in most new hoses. I made one from welding rod.

 

[dryheat]

I'm a fellow Zonie so I know first hand the cooling issues and frustrations you are experiencing. From your 7% description I'll assume you live somewhere near Camp Verde.

A few years back I fought this same issue on an older Non-Mopar car with a newly rebuilt engine. No matter what I changed it made absolutely ZERO difference in the temperature.

In frustration I finally reached out to an "old timer" and he had me go to NAPA and get a coolant test for hydrocarbons. Sure enough I had a positive test for HC's in my coolant.

I'm not saying this is your issue but what I ended up finding is that one of the head bolts was not fully seating against the head but was bottoming out in the block. So I ground a few threads off and after re-torquing the heat issues vanished.

 

[diesel_lv]

Might be fixed. A few more runs to make sure. Drive 50 mile round trip w a 10 mile 7% uphill grade in the middle in 110° temps at 70mph/2700 rpm. Engine hit 201° and needle in middle of factory gauge but mostly stayed at 195° or below. Had a piece machined that eliminates the fan clutch, allows a factory, not flex, fan bolt to the water pump. Used a nylon, reverse rotation, 11 blade, 19" fan from a Chevy truck w a 496 and my factory shroud. At idle and around town it gets up to 195 but that is about it. A/C still blows cold at 40° vent temps. Im going to do a bit more testing, but so far it seems to be working.