Critique My Engine Build....440

[dieseldazzle]

Congrads on your build!!
Here's something I didn't know that may help you.

Demon carbs are wet flow rated, VS other carbs that are dry flow rated. Basically, that 850 Demon, is about the same specs as a 950 Holley. There are downleg boosters, and annular boosters that affect total airflow, but bottom line is they flow more.

I had an old 750 Holley on my 440, with a 509 cam , performer RPM intake, headers etc.
The 750 needed a lot of work, I felt it would pick up more top end with an 850, so I bought a Mighty Demon annular booster carb.

The new carb was lazy to drive around, it was over-carbed. The right choice should have been an 850 Holley, or a 750 Demon.

I have a new 526 stroker now, with ported Trick Flows, that carb now has great response.

I'd stick with a smaller carb on your build, it would be a better mannered ride.

Good luck on the new bullet, another FYI, Amazon has Comp Cams break in oil, 60 bucks for 12 quarts. I needed that much for my big pan, you might be able to find a 6 quart deal.

Shocked your 526 trickflow headed stroker isn't begging for more carb.

My 512 trickflow headed stroker is using 950 and I'm worried about that.

 

[65Fury440]

Shocked your 526 trickflow headed stroker isn't begging for more carb.

My 512 trickflow headed stroker is using 950 and I'm worried about that.

Oh I'm not saying up top more wouldn't be better, I'm just pointing out to the OP that that Demon 850 will be lazy every where else but WOT.

The Demon 850 has a 1.56 venturii and 1.75 throttle plate opening, some Holly 950s have a 1.375 venturii with a 1.75 butterfly.

Carb sizing with different manufacturers gets confusing.

I can say though, according to experience with my similar 440 build, that the OP would be happier with about 100 CFM less.

I am not any kind of carb guy by any stretch, just passing along what I ran into,and learned, to help OP have a great experience without buying a carb twice.

I wish I knew what OOTB 4150 carb was biggest for my new engine.

 

[threewood]

Got my intake. Holley SD and I ordered a regular valley pan because the valley plates won't work because there is a heat crossover belly under the intake.

 

[threewood]

I finally got around to getting the valves off of the right side head. The valve spring tool is a joke on a loose head, zero leverage as the arm is straight up. I ended up laying the head on the ground and standing on the arm using the concrete as a pivot point. PITA! Measured installed heights with the new locks and keepers, I suppose they are pretty close 1.880" is what my cam card calls for. What is an acceptable range?

Here are the 440 Source keepers (green) and Hughes (black) case hardened machine steel locks. Besides the color, they look the same.

And a few shots of the ports. A few spots were touched up with a rotary tool and a couple of sharp angles on the short turn. I am just cleaning them up a bit, not going to hog em out.

The valves look decent, but a few were buggered a bit from the locks so i had to stone down some spots to get them to drop out of the guides.

 

[threewood]

Here are my measurements on the installed height of 1.880".......
+.009
+.006
-.007
+.013
- .005
.000
+.002
-.005

 

[khryslerkid]

The valve spring tool is a joke on a loose head, zero leverage as the arm is straight up. I ended up laying the head on the ground and standing on the arm using the concrete as a pivot point. P

I really liked this one!

 

[threewood]

I really liked this one!
View attachment 409811 View attachment 409812

My first attempt was with a c-frame spring compressor. It didn't even budge the valve off the seat. I returned it via Amazon and the frame was so stretched out it didn't fit in the case lol.

The one you have looks beefy!

 

[threewood]

Here are a few before and after pictures of blending the bowl into the seat. As they arrived, there were some spots that that were touched up with a rotary tool but also mismatched and stepped transitions to the seat.

These are after an acorn shaped cutter. I will clean them up with sanding rolls, keeping some texture on the intake side.

Before:

After:

Before:

After:

Before:

After:

 

[threewood]

Messing around with the valvetrain, have the rockers installed to check for pushrod length.
First issue, pushrod holes need enlarging. I had to take the nuts off my adjustable pushrod for it to seat on the ball. Ball is out .300" from the rocker and the rockers are 5:1.
Second issue, rocker contact is on the intake side of the valve tip. This is just from looking at it as I haven't marked the tip yet to check the swipe. According to Hughes, I adjust for highest lift first, then check swipe pattern. If swipe is off and I adjust with shims, does that affect the push rod length? I'm guessing it does.

 

[not so famous bob]

Messing around with the valvetrain, have the rockers installed to check for pushrod length.
First issue, pushrod holes need enlarging. I had to take the nuts off my adjustable pushrod for it to seat on the ball. Ball is out .300" from the rocker and the rockers are 5:1.
Second issue, rocker contact is on the intake side of the valve tip. This is just from looking at it as I haven't marked the tip yet to check the swipe. According to Hughes, I adjust for highest lift first, then check swipe pattern. If swipe is off and I adjust with shims, does that affect the push rod length? I'm guessing it does.

very much will. I wanted to run lash caps (even bought them) but they changed my pushrod length too much, and I didn`t want to shim the shafts, plus already had 2 sets of custom pushrods.

 

[dieseldazzle]

Great work and not sure how much work you do on heads but the tool from lsm has proven invaluable to me. I have adapters for every style rocker. Little pricey but worth it.


https://m.summitracing.com/parts/lsm-sc320

 

[khryslerkid]

If swipe is off and I adjust with shims, does that affect the push rod length?

The slightest thing can change the pushrod lenth, especially shims under the rocker shaft.

I used ductile rockers and I fooled with them for quite awhile before I was satisfied with the pattern. Then the time it took to get them centered on the rocker shaft. Then having to open up the holes in the head for clearance and checking for that while rotating the valve train. Then keeping the required clearance between the rockers and hold downs. Keeping in mind that you have the correct amount of threads showing under your adjusters. Too many threads will throw the geometry way off, having less than required will cause pushrod cup interference with the underside of the rocker. The head has to be torqued to specs. Then checking for the proper valve to piston measurement. You're checking for ten things at once and sometimes one thing will effect another. Being picky will pay off in the long run on a good smooth operating valve train.

I used a good adjustable push rod, rotated the valve train, checking the patteren. I also used a pair of home made solid lifters for checking because I was useing hydraulic in the end. The preload has to be factored in with the final pushrod lenth. Once you're satisfied with your geometry and rocker positions, then a good measurement on the checking pushrod can be sent to your pushrod maker. I used Smith Brothers and they make a nice looking piece! And the turnaround is fairly quick.

You're probably useing roller rockers. With rollers I believe you can get caps that go on the valve stem and with different thicknesses. I'm not positive on what's available anymore or what's the norm.

Here's an example of the correct geometry.

 

[threewood]

The slightest thing can change the pushrod lenth, especially shims under the rocker shaft.

I used ductile rockers and I fooled with them for quite awhile before I was satisfied with the pattern. Then the time it took to get them centered on the rocker shaft. Then having to open up the holes in the head for clearance and checking for that while rotating the valve train. Then keeping the required clearance between the rockers and hold downs. Keeping in mind that you have the correct amount of threads showing under your adjusters. Too many threads will throw the geometry way off, having less than required will cause pushrod cup interference with the underside of the rocker. The head has to be torqued to specs. Then checking for the proper valve to piston measurement. You're checking for ten things at once and sometimes one thing will effect another. Being picky will pay off in the long run on a good smooth operating valve train.

I used a good adjustable push rod, rotated the valve train, checking the patteren. I also used a pair of home made solid lifters for checking because I was useing hydraulic in the end. The preload has to be factored in with the final pushrod lenth. Once you're satisfied with your geometry and rocker positions, then a good measurement on the checking pushrod can be sent to your pushrod maker. I used Smith Brothers and they make a nice looking piece! And the turnaround is fairly quick.

You're probably useing roller rockers. With rollers I believe you can get caps that go on the valve stem and with different thicknesses. I'm not positive on what's available anymore or what's the norm.

Here's an example of the correct geometry.
View attachment 410593

I'm using Crane ductile rockers. You are right, there is a ton of stuff going on at once. I ordered a shim kit to play with the rockers. I think I may need to get the pushrod clearance issue resolved then deal with geometry. The exhause valve retainers were super close to the rockers and I believe by raising the rocker I will gain clearance there and get a better sweep.

By the time I am done, I'll have to reapply my cam break in lube. And I need to get my headgaskets before measuring anything. Thanks for the reply!

 

[threewood]

Here is where the rockers hit on the base circle. I just sharpied the tops and moved the rockers side to side against the spring. Will shims be able to correct these?

And the pushrod issue...

 

[khryslerkid]

The casting on the Cranes that I used, were not totally uniform throughout the set. I looked at them closely and moved them from valve to valve location for a better fit. It liked to drive me crazy but they eventually worked out.

I have some head work posted in "My Photo Garage" mostly valve spring installation. I'll try and update with my valve train pics soon.

 

[khryslerkid]

Here is where the rockers hit on the base circle. I just sharpied the tops and moved the rockers side to side against the spring. Will shims be able to correct these?

That should be where those rockers will start out. You should be good to go without shims. With a solid lifter and your adjustable pushrod, (hope it's a strong one) cycle the cam to reach the "fully open" and the mark will be just the opposite side of center.

Best pic I have showing the marks closed and fully open. This is what you want.

 

[threewood]

That should be where those rockers will start out. With a solid lifter and your adjustable pushrod, cycle the cam to reach the "fully open" and the mark will be just the opposite side of center.
View attachment 410666
Best pic I have showing the marks closed and fully open. This is what you want.

Nice pic, thanks. That much sweep is normal for these rockers?

 

[khryslerkid]

Nice pic, thanks. That much sweep is normal for these rockers?

Yep, you'll see when you cycle them once. Lighter valve springs would make it easier for checking but I got by with the adjustable pushrod that I have. When the valve is in the totally open position, I took a brass hammer and just lighty tapped the rocker sideways, just a little, to make the mark.

 

[khryslerkid]

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showcase/finishing-up-valve-train.4885/

 

[Mike67]

Not to sound stupid but I'm curious as I've never had aftermarket heads before and never ordered custom pushrods... but when selecting a length how many cylinders do you actually check? All of them????

Also Threewood have you thought about going efi? I'm wrestling with that as a good carb $500 & up, Sniper for $1k???? Fitech $1200 +/-????
Thanks for the info guys,