firm feel vs borgeson

[Kern Dog]

Really? Running and driving? Painted and ready to roll? I'm there every year with very rare exceptions!

 

[Derwud]

Really? Running and driving? Painted and ready to roll? I'm there every year with very rare exceptions!

Paint, no...

 

[Derwud]

Paint, no...

 

[CoronetDarter]

I went with the FF stage 3 along with rebuilding the front end, reinforcing the K member, added sfc. The Coronet handles as good as a lot of modern sedans. Don't have the on-center steering slop that Kern mentioned.
I went with FF instead of Borgeson because of the cost and also I was changing out a lot of components during the resto and wanted a steering box that was going to go back in exactly how it came out.

 

[andyf]

I'm going to use a Borgeson when I convert my Coronet over to power steering. I see zero reason to put an old design box into the car when a modern design is available. Same reason I use modern disc brakes rather than old drums or EFI rather than a carb. I know some guys prefer to keep them stock but if I'm going to drive the car then I want modern parts on it.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

This is the kit that was purchased. We will see how it goes on the install. As a note.. He bought both sizes of pitman arms as well as bought both types of steering adapters. The Ujoint style I believe you have to cut the shaft, the other style says you dont. But I think you have to colapse the column. Which I'd rather not do.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/brg-999065/overview/year/1969/make/plymouth/model/gtx

The coupler you see in this picture is the other one he bought. I think it requires colapsing the shaft.

Good read on installation.
https://www.streetmusclemag.com/pro...-82-mopar-steering-box-upgrade-with-borgeson/

Here is the coupler. and here is where to find it.

 

[Mike67]

I went with the Borgenson, although it's not installed yet...I felt new parts were better than rebuilt parts , quicker ratio, newer technology and a smaller footprint.

 

[Jcharger]

was going with a 73 ps gear box.No ps on my Bee. Now thinking of either of these. pros, cons? Borgeson you need coupler and lines,Firmfeel you need core. What and why did you go with what you have .Thanks Dave

Bergman

The coupler on the bergman kit isn't a big deal. I swapped using that kit and it was straightforward to do. The car now has the same feel as my newer cars. If I had known this years ago, I would have done the swap years earlier. I have heard similar statements made about the firm feel kits, but haven't driven a car with one of those.

 

[Joske2]

Went with the Borgeson unit also. Installed this on 3 cars now. Its lighter, smaller, and modern. What do you want more.

 

[themechanic]

There is another thread about this that basically said Borgeson was better and cost about the same if you don't have an acceptable core.

See post #18 by @rlem1977
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopa...s-box-from-an-oem-box-just-by-looking.149823/

 

[Montclaire]

You want to use the factory style coupler. It's intentionally designed to allow for chassis flex. If you run the fixed coupler you'll wear out the column bearings prematurely.

You should have some on-center slop but 11-1 slop is not normal and the box should be adjusted. If you are going to adjust the box, do it with the car on jack stands. Maladjustment can cause the box to go full left or right lock but it will do this immediately if it's going to happen. It would only happen out of nowhere if the person adjusting the box did not properly tighten the set screw or lock nut after the adjustment. Follow the FSM.

I believe both Firm Feel and Steer N Gear bore the box and install bearings, so you do get what you pay for. That being said, my next box doesn't need to be anything special so I probably will just get a jobber from the local parts store or maybe Rock Auto. Don't forget to change out the shim washer on the pump to reduce assist pressure.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

Well the swap was a bust. Turns out what he thought was the new pitman arm was actually a idler arm. So we will revisit this when he gets the correct pitman arm.

 

[monroegtx]

I’ve gone with the Borgeson unit on my GTX mainly because i wanted a modern feel, as I wasn’t happy with the light steering on my rebuilt original box. Also shipping a core overseas wasn’t viable. I went with the Bergman kit with the hose adaptors and universal steering coupler, as i didn’t want to cut my column down in case I want to go original again later. Just removed the box earlier today, and the Borgeson should arrive in a day or two and I’ll probably have it done by next weekend.

 

[davek]

universal steering coupler -pic and were did you buy it.

 

[Evan Frucht]

You want to use the factory style coupler. It's intentionally designed to allow for chassis flex. If you run the fixed coupler you'll wear out the column bearings prematurely.

You should have some on-center slop but 11-1 slop is not normal and the box should be adjusted. If you are going to adjust the box, do it with the car on jack stands. Maladjustment can cause the box to go full left or right lock but it will do this immediately if it's going to happen. It would only happen out of nowhere if the person adjusting the box did not properly tighten the set screw or lock nut after the adjustment. Follow the FSM.

I believe both Firm Feel and Steer N Gear bore the box and install bearings, so you do get what you pay for. That being said, my next box doesn't need to be anything special so I probably will just get a jobber from the local parts store or maybe Rock Auto. Don't forget to change out the shim washer on the pump to reduce assist pressure.

good to know that it will lock up right from the get-go if adjusted to far. feel better about the adjustment I made now, it "fixed" my steering play essentially, and I wont worry.

 

[Montclaire]

Here's a great reference article. The lash adjustment should really have nothing to do with regulating the power assist but after so many years it's not uncommon to need to tweak both.

https://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/steeroids.html

 

[monroegtx]

universal steering coupler -pic and were did you buy it.

Comes with the kit or you can buy it separately from Bergmans. http://bergmanautocraft.com/products.php?cat=1

 

[rrTor-Red]

Don't forget to change out the shim washer on the pump to reduce assist pressure.

Speaking of this, does anyone have a link to the article for this? I dont know what I did with mine. I think it was in Mopar Action? Thanks

 

[BeepBeepRR]

Ok guys finished the borgensen install today. The gear was an easy install. The crank pulley needed to be changed to a 2 groove pully. Most of this install was super easy. The black non cutting coupler says to collapse the steering column. I ended up using the beogensen ujoint style coupler it was just easier to install. The install took a little longer than I expected since i had to sand down the shaft to put in the coupler. The cars owner says it drives great. The steering wheel is dead straight and most of all he said all of the slop was gone. The pitman arm was a quick ratio and it helped the car.

This was a manual steering 1969 440 4-speed GTX

 

[Larrry B.]

Nice. I stuck with the regular pitman arm as the quick ratio wouldn't clear my Hooker headers. I did switch out the steering wheel to something smaller, lot more fun to drive.