How to destroy a 440

[Bighouse]

I gotta see this customer. Pics or it didn’t happen.

 

[eldubb440]

Yep sure did! I just thought it may have been a little rude asking for her to pose for pics.

come on man...... you have no security cameras? no potty cam?

 

[qkcuda]

Now I know why you work by yourself Mark.

 

[eldubb440]

Now I know why you work by yourself Mark.

he advertised the goods, and didn't produce......... I was just trying to help

 

[ChargerChad]

Yesterday a young lady brings me a hurt 440 out of her expensive 70 resto mod Charger that she recently purchased. The engine has under 400 miles and suffered some major damage because whoever built it missed the mark on the details. One clearly missed detail is a rocker arm spacer on the other bank was in the wrong position.

Why do people run those crappy stock rocker arms and 5/16" push rods in anything but a stock cammed engine!?! Dual springs with high open pressures have no business under those rockers arms. Making rocker arm skewers with push rods should be a clue that those rockers are not up for the job when high spring pressures are used.

Also note a major factor in this failure was the retainer hitting the rocker. Hard to see here but the edges of the retainers where contact was made is present on most of them. She thinks the failure was her fault by taking it to 6000 RPM but it's not. A valve train that is substandard will become a secondary spring and tend to flex in unpredictable ways as RPM increases. Really bad things can happen at 6000 RPM and one must design accordingly.

After pulling the heads the news only got worse. Crack in #8 cylinder, the intake valve seat from #8 found its way in three other cylinders. A small hole in #3 piston. Initially I thought the failure was caused by the high RPM and the retainer hitting the inside of the rocker, possibly dislodging the keeper. While that is not impossible, the failure may have originated by the intake seat falling out. Anyone have any similar experience with 440 Source heads? Seats falling out that is. I have no idea what cam is in it but it has dual springs and it's a hydraulic flat tappet.

It's now my task to bring this back to life and make sure it can handle 6000 RPM under the foot of this young lady, who also has a Porsche 911S turbo. When I suggested this may have a hot cam and I can tame it down she says "oh, I don't want to loose that." Haha! OK fine with me. This thing will be Brandi proof!

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Those don’t look anything like 440 Source heads. These are my new Stealth heads going on my 440 build.

 

[Lance Holloway]

Great looking car. Horrible engine failure. I would think she would be going back to the seller to complain of the shoddy engine work they did and get some compensation on the rebuild.

 

[PRHeads]

Not that it really matters at this point, especially since it will be getting new heads…….
But, my take on whether or not they are Stealth heads(based on the currently posted pics)……

If you look at the end of the head in this pic, you can see the bosses for the alternator mount, like what factory heads have.
All of the other similar style aftermarket aluminum heads I’ve seen have the ends of the heads machined smooth & flat.

Of course, a few other pics would clear up any doubts.

Looks like the pushrod holes have been relieved as well.

As for the comments on 6000rpm and 400 miles…….
What do you guys think happens when a new engine goes on the dyno?
I can tell you for a fact…….there’s waaaay less than 400 miles worth of run time before going to WOT and max RPM.
If the failure was indeed RPM related, some parts used for the build weren’t suitable for that RPM……regardless of how long the break in period would have been.

 

[Moms68]

I only met her when the engine arrived. And she was wearing a skin tight mini dress and a white leather jacket with MoPar and Charger logos. Me thinks this is a tactic to get the price down.

 

[Orig69]

It looks like the failed rocker was on cylinder number 8 where all the destruction started.

I see HP exhaust manifolds in this picture.

 

[Black_Sheep]

The cylinders look badly scored for an engine with 400 miles on it and there appears to be a crack in the cylinder wall. That’s why I think it was severely overheated. To be fair, it may not be 100% the customer’s fault but it sounds like she was abusing the motor. I would be wary of building her an engine and offering any sort of warranty. Maybe she’d be better off with a crate motor that has a manufacturer warranty. I would also talk her into a rev limiter…

 

[PRHeads]

I’d say the use of what are probably 50+ year old rockers and shafts on a freshly built HP 440 combo was obviously a bad call.
The pic of the spacer in the wrong location in the pic in post #49 is evidence the assembler wasn’t very detail oriented and/or not very familiar with Mopar big blocks.

There is only one reason new rockers weren’t used…….the cost would have cut into the profits.

Heres an observation I find interesting…….
I’m assuming the rocker with the hole in it is off the cylinder with the broken intake valve.
Yet, that rocker would have been on the exhaust valve.

 

[Orig69]

I’d say the use of what are probably 50+ year old rockers and shafts on a freshly built HP 440 combo was obviously a bad call.
The pic of the spacer in the wrong location in the pic in post #49 is evidence the assembler wasn’t very detail oriented and/or not very familiar Mopar big blocks.

There is only one reason new rockers weren’t used…….the cost would cut into the profits.

Heres an observation I find interesting…….
I’m assuming the rocker with the hole in it is off the cylinder with the broken intake valve.
Yet, that rocker would have been on the exhaust valve.

Yes the rockers do look original you can checkout my other post #12

I believe the rocker failed because of too much metal in the cylinder.

I agree it's a Steal.

 

[beanhead]

I agree it's a Stealth.

Looks like it to me too. They have the stock-looking casting on the end as Dwayne mentioned, plus in your pic you can see the shiny aluminum rocker pedestal.
What a bummer.

 

[JackR]

If she thinks a 440 is $$$ to rebuild wait until she blows up the 911S ,
I own one and it's 3 times the cost of my mopars

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Yes, there is no such thing as a cheap to keep Porsche.

 

[1STMP]

Yesterday a young lady brings me a hurt 440 out of her expensive 70 resto mod Charger that she recently purchased. The engine has under 400 miles and suffered some major damage because whoever built it missed the mark on the details. One clearly missed detail is a rocker arm spacer on the other bank was in the wrong position.

Why do people run those crappy stock rocker arms and 5/16" push rods in anything but a stock cammed engine!?! Dual springs with high open pressures have no business under those rockers arms. Making rocker arm skewers with push rods should be a clue that those rockers are not up for the job when high spring pressures are used.

Also note a major factor in this failure was the retainer hitting the rocker. Hard to see here but the edges of the retainers where contact was made is present on most of them. She thinks the failure was her fault by taking it to 6000 RPM but it's not. A valve train that is substandard will become a secondary spring and tend to flex in unpredictable ways as RPM increases. Really bad things can happen at 6000 RPM and one must design accordingly.

After pulling the heads the news only got worse. Crack in #8 cylinder, the intake valve seat from #8 found its way in three other cylinders. A small hole in #3 piston. Initially I thought the failure was caused by the high RPM and the retainer hitting the inside of the rocker, possibly dislodging the keeper. While that is not impossible, the failure may have originated by the intake seat falling out. Anyone have any similar experience with 440 Source heads? Seats falling out that is. I have no idea what cam is in it but it has dual springs and it's a hydraulic flat tappet.

It's now my task to bring this back to life and make sure it can handle 6000 RPM under the foot of this young lady, who also has a Porsche 911S turbo. When I suggested this may have a hot cam and I can tame it down she says "oh, I don't want to loose that." Haha! OK fine with me. This thing will be Brandi proof!

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I've had pushrods punch
thru the rockers on
a completely stock motor
that had been freshly rebuilt,
utilizing the 5/16" pushrods
and stock single valve
springs.
The culprit turned out to be
bad lifters, and a cracked
rocker arm shaft. Though,
I think the shaft cracked due
to the forces applied when
the pushrods punched thu
the rockers.
Bought new shaft
assemblies, 2 new pushrods,
and replaced the lifters
(Speedpro [TRW]).
She's been running fine
since.
I don't believe too high a
valve spring pressure has
caused this young ladies'
engine to crater. My
suspicion would be valve
float (@ 6000 rpm), and
internal parts not having
had the chance to break in
and seat properly.
Even the factory advised
against too high an rpm
at less than 500 miles.

 

[66 Sat]

As for the comments on 6000rpm and 400 miles…….
What do you guys think happens when a new engine goes on the dyno?
I can tell you for a fact…….there’s waaaay less than 400 miles worth of run time before going to WOT and max RPM.
If the failure was indeed RPM related, some parts used for the build weren’t suitable for that RPM……regardless of how long the break in period would have been.

Yes but you'd think the dyno operator would warm up the engine properly, apply the full throttle carefully, monitor everything etc. The lady owner sounds like she's just getting in and riding that thing hard...and yes I am talking about the 440.

 

[Lamadogg]

If she thinks a 440 is $$$ to rebuild wait until she blows up the 911S ,
I own one and it's 3 times the cost of my mopars

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Nice 911. Love the front fascia add-on!

 

[Lamadogg]

Yeah, the RPM was 6000 — when she glanced at the tach on its way up to 7,000+. She drove the Charger like her Porsche. You can take revs up to 7,000 easy on a flat 6 no prob — different animal when you jump into the Mopar….

 

[Meep-Meep]

come on man...... you have no security cameras? no potty cam?

 

[BSB67]

The valve train seems like an epic fail on the builder’s part. What about the rest of it?

As you step through the teardown, can you share the rest of your findings? What parts were used, and the quality of machining/assembly?

Also curious, do you know where the car is, and how the motor got from the car to your shop?