Noisy Valve train on new motor?

[Heimedw]

So I built a 512 stroker last year and I have put hardly any km on it because of valve train noise. I pulled the Valve covers off tonight and let the motor run with the covers off and I see no oil running over the rockers on both sides? I do see oil pooling in the head and it looks like oil in between the rockers and shims. I have Harland sharp rockers. Do Harland sharp shafts have oil holes that have to be in a certain direction for the oil feed passages or to feed each rocker? It says nothing about this in the directions.

 

[MoparLeo]

Can you post some pictures of it ?

 

[beanhead]

Without hearing it, it's tough to say. Could be lifters or their adjustment, normal fast-rate cam chatter, exhaust leaks, woodpeckers....
In all seriousness though if you suspect a rocker oiling issue I would slide them off and check them, the shafts, adjusters and pushrod ends for any signs of excess heat or galling.

 

[91r/t]

So I built a 512 stroker last year and I have put hardly any km on it because of valve train noise. I pulled the Valve covers off tonight and let the motor run with the covers off and I see no oil running over the rockers on both sides? I do see oil pooling in the head and it looks like oil in between the rockers and shims. I have Harland sharp rockers. Do Harland sharp shafts have oil holes that have to be in a certain direction for the oil feed passages or to feed each rocker? It says nothing about this in the directions.

So let me fill you in to my motor I built as I thought the same thing, a 500in RB stroker motor with Harland Sharp rollers. I hear my rockers pretty loud at cruise speed so I panic and check oiling on them. They have barely any oil dribbling over the top of the rockers but the heads are full and oiling properly. My cam is fairly aggressive by some standard at .539 lift and [email protected] duration, so I tear into it and relash my hydraulic flat tappets again thinking I missed a few or something. I check them and they are all fine, 3/4 turn past zero lash. So I check the shafts and they have oiling holes on both sides, so no worry on which side to install them on. I now call Hardland Sharp and ask the guy point blank........are these suckers supposed to be bathed in oil like the stockers and he says absolutely not. He said they widdle a small amount of oil on the tip and that's all it needs. Almost looks dry he said trust me they are fine. I then talked to a few guys and they said yes the roller rockers will make some good noise and that's the way it is. I also checked the shafts and both sides have oiling holes so there's no way to install them upside down. I youtube'd videos of cars with similar cams and rockers and I hear similar noises. I bolted valve covers on, shut the hood, and said run the ****** and its been 2500mi. with no issues. I even went as far to buy the ones for my specific heads, and the wear pattern is fine, so I assume they all do it and just run the car and enjoy! As long as the valve tips aren't wearing or burnt looking and rollers look clean and wear free, I'd say all is normal with the setup. That's my scenario and story anyway. Hope it helps ya make a decision.

 

[PRND21]

I had the same problem with my engine. A friend that used to post on FBBO a lot told me, These aren’t Chevys, you need more lifter preload, 1 to 1 1/2 turns. Set mine at 1 1/4 turn, most of the noise went away and seems to run better. I still have the fast ramp chatter, but the ticking went away.

 

[Ernie ingling]

Cam bearings installed incorrect maybe ie. Oil holes in bearing not matched with block

 

[Heimedw]

I was looking at a video on AndyF YouTube page with Harland sharp rockers with clear Valve covers and they are getting a lot of oil over the top of the rocker. I don’t think the cam bearing is off because the head is getting a lot of oil. I do have my pre load at 1/2 turn past lash so that might be the clicking noise.

 

[oldkimmer]

I don’t think the rocker shafts have the holes centered as in they can point towards the rockers or the valves. U may have to confirm they are the right way. If not u may have to turn the shaft end for end. Just a thought. Kim

 

[toolmanmike]

Just curious, are the wedge shafts like the small block ones and there is a notch in the end that goes down and to the front on the drivers side and to the rear on the passenger side? It orients the oil supply and rocker oiling holes properly.

 

[beanhead]

Just curious, are the wedge shafts like the small block ones and there is a notch in the end that goes down and to the front on the drivers side and to the rear on the passenger side? It orients the oil supply and rocker oiling holes properly.

Some do, some don't...not sure if the notch was just an OEM thing or if some of the aftermarket units had them? None of mine have.
Best way is to just make sure the holes point down and out toward the valves.

 

[oldkimmer]

I’ve never had any bb shafts with the notch like a Sb. Factory or not. Kim

 

[PRHeads]

The shafts from HS have the oil holes on center with the bolt holes, and have upper and lower holes.
You can’t put them on wrong, end for end, or upside down.
They are symmetrical.

The only oil hole on the rocker body is for the pushrod feed.
The parts on the valve side of the rocker(valve, guide & spring) only gets oil mist from under the valve cover.

Some rockers have feed holes supplying oil to the valve side of the rocker...... some don’t.
HS rockers for the BB Mopar don’t.

As for the noise....... if it’s any kind of faster rate cam....... you’re likely going to have some noise.
Try a turn or so of preload........ whatever noise you have with it like that...... that’s about what you’re going to get.

 

[oldkimmer]

Sometimes u can’t get away from the noise. U just have to live with it. So can other shafts be drilled for this oiling mod. Should save the rockers that just run the aluminum on the shaft. Thanks. Kim

 

[Heimedw]

Prheads I do believe what you are saying and what you described is what I’m seeing but I pm Andy about his video and he seems to think that I’m having a problem. I wonder if the older Harland sharp rockers are different? You should check his video out. The rockers in his video are getting a lot of oil over the rocker.

 

[PRHeads]

Try running your motor at 5000rpm for 8-10 seconds with the valve cover off........ I’m sure you’ll notice plenty of oil flying around and abort that idea a few seconds into the experiment.
If you can rev the motor to 5k, and hold it there for a few seconds, and there still is barely a trickle of oil coming out from between the rockers....... then yes, you likely have a problem.
But at idle........ you’re not going to see much.

On some of Andy’s combos, he was pushrod oiling along with the stock oiling, which really pumps a ton of oil to the top.

 

[451Mopar]

The valve train on my 512 sounds a bit like a sewing machine. It is not quiet.
it had the HS rockers and hydraulic roller cam with 1 turn of pre-load. I think those rockers use a 20-TPI adjuster, so 1-turn is 0.050" preload.

 

[Heimedw]

So it turns out the cause of my valve train noise is the Crain hydraulic roller lifters. They are loosing prime. Crazy because I bought comp roller lifters first for the build and almost all of them were junk in the box! Should have went solid roller.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

lifters first for the build and almost all of them were junk in the box! Should have went solid roller.

Some Hr's cams can run solid rollers w tight lash. Call the cam mfg and find out. You may be able to switch over.

 

[PRHeads]

When someone calls me looking for a HR cam, if they haven’t tried a retro-fit HR before I tell them to do a Google search for “hydraulic roller lifter noise”, and read a bunch of threads about it on various forums.
What you’ll discover is that there doesn’t seem to be any brand of HR retro-fit lifters that doesn’t have some unhappy users.

I want to make sure they understand that it’s not always “roses and unicorns” with HR cams...... and that there is a very real possibility you could end up being one of those people fighting for quieter operation out of their valvetrain.
If after their search they still want to go down the HR path, at least they’re going into it with opened eyes(ears?).

There are also misconceptions about how the lifters function.
There is some good info on the Gaterman site in the FAQ section.

 

[Heimedw]

I’m super disappointed in the quality of the hydraulic lifters and whats even worse is the company has no consequences for pumping out junk that they don’t have to warranty. Not happy at all! I went hydraulic because they are supposed to be more reliable and less maintenance then solid. I could live with ramp noise but loosing lash for no reason is not cool.