Re-Rebuilding the 440-493 in a 1970 Charger

furious70

Well-Known Member
Local time
5:55 AM
Joined
Jun 30, 2020
Messages
1,032
Reaction score
642
Location
Chicagoland
Thanks. I had one, didn't like it so I sold it.
I'm not a hypermiler but I do like the idea of maximizing fuel economy for road trips. The Rev-N-Nator doesn't work with vacuum advance.
Vacuum advance made a 2 mpg difference in fuel economy for me on a road trip.
Didn't remember that about it, no bueno
 

Cheapsunglasses

In Rust We Trust!
FBBO Gold Member
Local time
5:55 AM
Joined
Dec 21, 2021
Messages
3,461
Reaction score
14,115
Location
Texas
2 extra mpg doesn’t sound like a lot, until you multiply that over 18 gallons. And factor in the outrageous price of gas.
 

Kern Dog

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.
FBBO Gold Member
Local time
3:55 AM
Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
28,991
Reaction score
92,826
Location
Granite Bay CA
Yeah, when you’re getting maybe 190 miles per tank, 2 X 19 gallon tank could mean making it to the next gas station under your own power OR walking to get gas.​
 

rikkitik

Active Member
Local time
3:55 AM
Joined
Nov 1, 2020
Messages
36
Reaction score
48
Location
Central Valley California
I've been using the FBO box for a couple of years, very happy with it's performance and rev limiter.
Plus, if it ever has issues or dies, you can plug in a factory box and be on your way. Wiring is the same for both units.
I did think the original cover sticker looked cheesy, so I peeled it off and painted it black.

20220615_091216.jpg
 
Last edited:

Kern Dog

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.
FBBO Gold Member
Local time
3:55 AM
Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
28,991
Reaction score
92,826
Location
Granite Bay CA
That looks pretty good. The factory style “Electronic Ignition” sticker is a nice touch.
 

hunt2elk

FBBO Gold Member
FBBO Gold Member
Local time
5:55 AM
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
9,520
Reaction score
9,632
Location
WI
Can't remember if I mentioned it before, bit I really like the FBO control box paired up with a Firecore distributor. Knock on wood, I have had good luck with that combo on several cars.
 

Kern Dog

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.
FBBO Gold Member
Local time
3:55 AM
Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
28,991
Reaction score
92,826
Location
Granite Bay CA
The replacement valve springs came on Monday.


178 R.jpg
179 R.jpg


Looking at the tech sheet....

180 R.jpg


The highlighted section shows the max lift with the springs....

181 R.jpg


How can this be right? The '528 cam and 1.6 rocker arms were at .563 lift.
The Lunati was even higher and I didn't have any troubles. Am I reading this right?
 

Kern Dog

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.
FBBO Gold Member
Local time
3:55 AM
Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
28,991
Reaction score
92,826
Location
Granite Bay CA
The firewall reinforcement plate was looking shabby. It sat tucked in behind the brake booster before but since I'm switching to a manual master cylinder setup, the poor appearance would be in full view.
You can see the original color of the car right here...

182 R.jpg
183 R.jpg


The plate was cleaned and repainted. It has obviously been on the car since it was new.
The clutch master cylinder reservoir used to be attached to two bolts on the master cylinder.....

SST 140.JPG


With the new master cylinder being a 2 bolt pattern, I had to relocate the reservoir.

190 R.JPG


Simple enough.

The firewall plate is back in....what a friggin JOY that is to do by myself. With the steering column out, I had my hand through the firewall with a wrench on the engine side....then a ratchet, extensions and socket on the interior side.

191 R.JPG


192 R.JPG


Tuesday makes 2 weeks that the engine has been at the machine shop. As of now, the engine bay is ready along with the brake system. I still plan to refinish the K member and suspension. That is next on the list.
 
Last edited:

Cheapsunglasses

In Rust We Trust!
FBBO Gold Member
Local time
5:55 AM
Joined
Dec 21, 2021
Messages
3,461
Reaction score
14,115
Location
Texas
Oh that’s the fun part, taking all 400 suspension parts, nuts and bolts, cleaning and painting them!

The only paint work I did on my car was the engine bay and suspension. I started out with the plan of sandblasting and painting with a paint gun….after doing under the hood and some parts, ended up wire brush and a rattle can lol.

But it’s definitely worth doing, and satisfying seeing nice paint.
 

68 Sport Satellite

Well-Known Member
Local time
3:55 AM
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
1,850
Reaction score
847
Location
San Jose, CA
Busy day.....lookie what I did!

View attachment 1293899

I got a bit of a later start but was lucky to have the day off to do this today.
So often when a big project awaits, I delay and put it off until I'm ready. Mary pushed me into doing this today and I'm glad she did.
This is my first time removing an engine and transmission this way. Nobody was around so I did it myself.
I was careful to disconnect and remove everything that could snag, drag or hang up. The wiring on these old cars is so simple! The A/C compressor is still connected. I was able to swing it over to sit on the core support. This bottom removal is great. I was able to leave the radiator and shroud in place.

View attachment 1293900

View attachment 1293905

I took the fan off though.

This method requires removal of the steering column and shifter.

View attachment 1293906

I raised the car up and used THIS tool to remove the torsion bars:

View attachment 1293913

View attachment 1293914

Tighten the Two 3/8" bolts and tap it rearward to dislodge the torsion bars.....

View attachment 1293915

It helps if you remembered to grease them when you first installed them.
All this time and I had no idea you had a lift in your garage! Awesome.
 

68 Sport Satellite

Well-Known Member
Local time
3:55 AM
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
1,850
Reaction score
847
Location
San Jose, CA
Everybody states that you can easily run 10.5:1 compression with aluminum heads. I am not a believer in that statement anymore. Todays gas just flat out sucks compared to what we used to have 40 years ago. Both my big blocks were there, and yes, it is possible on 91 octane. BUT, I had to slow the timing advance rate way down and drop total timing to 30-31 degrees. I have since had both motors redone dropping the compression down to 9.6 on one and 9.7 on the other. Now I can set my total timing where the motors make the most power on the dyno and lighten up the advance spring to bring total all in by 2100 rpm. No detonation ever now. I lost 12-15 hp on each engine by dropping 1 point of compression, but the motors feel much stronger because of being able to bring the timing in quicker. I will never build another street motor with compression over what I have now. Just not worth all the hassle imo.....
I agree. I had a 451 built with flat top pistons and resulting compression 10.2:1, worked aluminum eddy rpm heads and .037" head gaskets. 91 octane california high ethanol fuel and if I go over 32 degrees total timing it detonates.

What did you have to do to you motor to drop down to 9.7:1? Same cam? Did you need to change pistons?
 

Wietse

Well-Known Member
Local time
12:55 PM
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
2,043
Reaction score
932
Location
Netherlands
What a story KD, what was the final verdict on the cam failure?
If it was running for 8 years and suddenly went down hill some recent change would something that caused it.
As I understand you changed oil to another brand c/w additive, did it pinpoint down to that?
 

Kern Dog

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.
FBBO Gold Member
Local time
3:55 AM
Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
28,991
Reaction score
92,826
Location
Granite Bay CA
The oil could be the cause.
Just like with detective work, the cause is in the clues. You look at the evidence and try to make sense of it. The lifters all rotated. For almost the entire time I ran this cam, I ran Valvoline VR1 but I also had the Comp Cams supplement mixed in. I'm told that in many cases, the chemicals already in the oil may not mix well or work well with any additives despite what their ad campaigns claim.
Some time in 2021, I switched to this different oil....a synthetic with high detergent. It still ran fine though.....
Until it didn't.
 

Wietse

Well-Known Member
Local time
12:55 PM
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
2,043
Reaction score
932
Location
Netherlands
Not sure you read this topic: Z D D P

Down the line you will come across a link: 540 RAT - Tech Facts, NOT Myths
This guy tested a lot of different oils & oil c/w additives and measured the shear pressures, basically the higher the number the better the oil protects against metal-to-metal wear.
You abandoned actually one of the better oils from these tests as Valvoline VR-1 (and Valvoline in general) comes out as one the best oils.
If you search that page for "Valvoline" you will find the results for various viscosities which are showing good results.

IMO, this guy his testing, unbiased as he is, is one of the best lubricant comparisons I've seen.
One might accept it, others stick to what they have been using before.
And some question everything based on nothing else but being against the idea. :)
 

hunt2elk

FBBO Gold Member
FBBO Gold Member
Local time
5:55 AM
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
9,520
Reaction score
9,632
Location
WI
I agree. I had a 451 built with flat top pistons and resulting compression 10.2:1, worked aluminum eddy rpm heads and .037" head gaskets. 91 octane california high ethanol fuel and if I go over 32 degrees total timing it detonates.

What did you have to do to you motor to drop down to 9.7:1? Same cam? Did you need to change pistons?
Same cam, just a piston swap.
 

HALIFAXHOPS

MSGT(ret) and MOPAR only distributor rebuilder!
FBBO Gold Member
Local time
6:55 AM
Joined
May 5, 2016
Messages
4,664
Reaction score
2,394
Location
Halifax, PA USA
Most have a rev limiting feature. They break up ater a certain RPM. There is one I think FBO makes that is adjustable.

ecu chart 2.png


ecu III.png


ECUApplication.jpg
 

Kern Dog

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.
FBBO Gold Member
Local time
3:55 AM
Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
28,991
Reaction score
92,826
Location
Granite Bay CA
I wanted to get pictures of my own but since you posted them above in post #139,
FBBO member Beanhead/Lloyd sent me a FBO box and coil last week. I'll start the car with the existing setup and switch to the FBO setup after it is up and running.
Thanks, Lloyd!
 
Top