Solid Rollers or Flat Tappet for street and strip. Looking for LONGEVITY and low maintenance!

[dvw]

We use JR1 synthetic. 0w30 changed roughly every 100 passes, once a year. The lash stays close. At checks 1 or 2 valves may have moved .001"-.0015".
Doug

 

[Hemirunner]

We use JR1 synthetic. 0w30 changed roughly every 100 passes, once a year. The lash stays close. At checks 1 or 2 valves may have moved .001"-.0015".
Doug

This is where good quality rockers are critical in my opinion. T&D or Jesel are worth every penny. Some of the other brands would be lucky to hold lash that tight.

 

[dvw]

This is where good quality rockers are critical in my opinion. T&D or Jesel are worth every penny. Some of the other brands would be lucky to hold lash that tight.

We run T&D paired shaft rockers. Trend 7/16"×.165" tapered push rods, Pac springs, retainers, locks, and Jessel belt drive
Doug

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

This is where good quality rockers are critical in my opinion. T&D or Jesel are worth every penny. Some of the other brands would be lucky to hold lash that tight.

I have been fortunate with my rockers. When Barton 1st came out with that rocker system for $2800 is when I 1st started wishing for them. They will never be within my reach as my budget gets smaller and smaller.
On my last major freshen after hurting a piston it was at the 5 year mark.
I have not used solid lifters for so long I don't know if they could live in a 6500+ rpm deal.

 

[biomedtechguy]

We use JR1 synthetic. 0w30 changed roughly every 100 passes, once a year. The lash stays close. At checks 1 or 2 valves may have moved .001"-.0015".
Doug

This is where good quality rockers are critical in my opinion. T&D or Jesel are worth every penny. Some of the other brands would be lucky to hold lash that tight.

THAT is the information I am looking for!

I need to know what/who/where/how I can put together a valve train that will give me confidence and peace of mind, play well with the rest of the engine, and require as little maintenance as possible.

 

[vintage chromoly]

Not a mopar RB, but I have a higher end endurance built BBC architecture engine in he boat in my avatar.
Engine made 675HP on the dyno.

I have bushed lifters (.903 as opposed to .842 Chevy size)
I’m running a custom solid roller (.730 ish lift 250 ish duration @ .050, I can check exact specs, it’s been a couple years)
I’m using morel lifters with traditional needle bearings. I considered bushed lifters as I liked the idea of no needle bearings, but I was counseled against them because of extended idle time in a boat application. (Maybe incorrectly, but my engine builders opinion)

They weren’t cheap. Roughly 900 for the lifters.

I’m using jesel rockers (not their sportsman line) and a 55mm cam with a jesel belt drive.

My emphasis was on endurance with the marine application.

So far, 3 summers with no issues.
Like DVW, I get minimal movement when I check lash twice a season.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Again putting together a complete combination from the rockers to the crank in harmony will create good harmonics and longevity!! This is where the expertice comes into play and I know many builders across the the US and Canada that have that knowledge.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I have bushed lifters .903...I’m running a custom solid roller .730 ish lift...I’m using morel lifters with traditional needle bearings. I considered bushed lifters as I liked the idea of no needle bearings, but I was counseled against them because of extended idle time in a boat application. (Maybe incorrectly, but my engine builders opinion)

I'm going to have to ultimately defer to my builder's recommendation, but I have to insist on solid lifters because Jim Laroy said so, and that is that, so whatever recommendation that is a solid lifter.
I can relay information from the forum, but then again, I am using Southeast Performance R/T because of their depth of expertise. (and Jim Laroy wasn't available)
If nothing else, the posts help me understand what/why/how, and keep me motivated, so thanks!

 

[snakeoil24]

I have my opinion that comes from an expensive learning curve. Be that as it may with ANY lifter if you stay on top of the valve lash you can see when a lifter is going south.
OH! WAIT,,,,,your already SOUTH

this is the absolute truth

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

If you want low maint a solid flat tappet is best. Use either a nitrided cam with EDM lifters or, The other option is a tool steel lifter using a non nitrided cam. PRH would be the cam expert on the board. I got my nitrided solid through him. I love rollers but prefer to use them on a more limited street application as they do require maint on something that sees a lot of idle and low speed driving.

it’s pretty easy to screw up a driver type street car with too many race type parts.

 

[biomedtechguy]

If you want low maint a solid flat tappet is best. Use either a nitrided cam with EDM lifters or, The other option is a tool steel lifter using a non nitrided cam. PRH would be the cam expert on the board. I got my nitrided solid through him. I love rollers but prefer to use them on a more limited street application as they do require maint on something that sees a lot of idle and low speed driving.
it’s pretty easy to screw up a driver type street car with too many race type parts.

THIS!!
Thanks, I will let my builder know my concerns. Given the 541 cu in displacement, I don't need a roller cam to make the kind of power I want. Trick Flow 270s, 4.25 stroke, 4.50 bore, and a nice solid flat tappet cam will surely get me all the power I can handle.
I think that is the best solution!
ARE THERE ANY SOLID ROLLER LIFTERS THAT CAN LIVE ON THE STREET with minimal maintenance?

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

I will also say that if you have an engine builder it’s best to Listen to him. You bring him pages of internet advice he’s gonna tell you to pack your **** up and take it elsewhere.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

THIS!!
Thanks, I will let my builder know my concerns. Given the 541 cu in displacement, I don't need a roller cam to make the kind of power I want. Trick Flow 270s, 4.25 stroke, 4.50 bore, and a nice solid flat tappet cam will surely get me all the power I can handle.
I think that is the best solution!
ARE THERE ANY SOLID ROLLER LIFTERS THAT CAN LIVE ON THE STREET with minimal maintenance?

this is what I chose for my Hemi. These are needless and spec’d out for Best Machine. They also did the bushings in the block. I wanted to go with a proven set up. After talking with them I decided to set mine up “their way” as it works well on the engines they build.

 

[dvw]

I see no reason to run a solid roller in a street car. I have 2 street cars, 1 hydraulic roller, 1 solid flat tappet.
Doug

 

[biomedtechguy]

I will also say that if you have an engine builder it’s best to Listen to him. You bring him pages of internet advice he’s gonna tell you to pack your **** up and take it elsewhere.

I'm definitely not going to bring him pages of internet advice. I already told him that ultimately his recommendations are what I will abide by. Thanks for making that clear.
I am trying to have a better understanding of these topics, for myself. It may help me ask him an intelligent question, or have a better understanding about the what and why he does what he does when the time comes. Thank you for cautioning me, I certainly don't want to piss this guy off, I don't think I have or would come across as a propeller head internet "do this because the internet said so" guy to him.
So those are needle-less, and the lifter bores have bushings.
I am trying to learn here, so please bear with me, the bushed lifter bores:
Provide the lifters with a "slippery", close fitting cylinder to slide up and down in? Keeps the lifters from wearing into the aluminum material of the block's lifter bores?
Can be or have to be replaced-sacrificing the sleeves to prevent wear on the lifters themselves?
Is that right and is that all?
AND
The needles of a roller lifter are in the roller?
If yours are needle-less, the roller rolls on a bushing?
How long does that last broadly speaking, and what do you do about wear?

 

[biomedtechguy]

I see no reason to run a solid roller in a street car. I have 2 street cars, 1 hydraulic roller, 1 solid flat tappet.
Doug

Thanks Doug
@IQ52 can you chime in?
Before I read IQ52 aka Jim Laroy admonishing using hydraulic roller lifters in multiple posts with different engines, I had already used them with the advice of and blessings of my local builder who did the Pontiac 421. We replaced the hydraulic flat tappet cam with a CompCams hydraulic roller cam and lifters. No problem and I pray to God I never have any because my wife when pissed off is a force to be reckoned with (or avoided completely)....
My understanding of Jim Laroy's position on hydraulic roller lifters is what makes that a non-option in my opinion.
Hydraulic flat tappet lifters just don't make sense to me on a build of this caliber.
Maintenance or durability issues with solid roller lifters would be a real negative factor to me, but if reliability can be assured, and maintenance is the only real concern with solid roller lifters, that is at least something I can factor in making a decision.
If flat tappet solid lifters gets me all of the performance, street manners (I'm not real picky about that), and power I could want, without shifting the burden of compensating for not using a roller cam to a lot of other components having to be way better and more expensive to reach the same kind of result, then I'm good with a solid flat tappet cam.

 

[INTMD8]

What is the best lifter so as to not wind up with needle bearings scattered throughout my oil pan, or having to rebuild lifters, etc. and still choose a lifter that works with the cam that works with everything else? I don't mind an "annual maintenance weekend" if neccessary, but I have to be honest and say I'd rather not have to spend a lot of time under the hood.

I had been contemplating the same myself lately and did as much reading as I could on the subject.

The decision I arrived at was Morel black mamba (lite version). Seems they have been holding up well on the street and track as far as I can tell. The same design started off in diesel engines so idling shouldn't be a problem.

Hopefully way overkill for what I'm doing.

Some info-

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/7b0d6703-02c7-4d7c-834a-da872ff630ae/downloads/1d17fuke4_279924.pdf

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

Lifter bushings are used to correct geometry, control oil, and in the case of your aluminum block provide a proper surface for the lifter to ride on. With good oiling they will last a long time but, can be replaced if they become worn or damaged.

the bushings in the lifters are “suppose” to be more durable. Mine are also pressure fed to the wheel. You also loose the risk of needle bearings flying everywhere if you do have a failure. My comp 829’s were wasted every 2 years in the HEMI. (Had to send them back to comp for rebuild) I expect a longer service life out of the Crowers. Although keep in mind I don’t drive this car a crazy amount. That’s what I built my roadrunner for (hence the flat tappet)in that one. The Dart is more for going out and making a blast and putting it back in the garage. It’ll see local cruise nights. Nothing crazy.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I don’t drive this car a crazy amount. That’s what I built my roadrunner for (hence the flat tappet)in that one.

Once again, a post pointing me toward flat tappet solid lifters.
I hate to miss out on the benefits of a roller cam profile, but my understanding is the larger diameter of the Mopar/AMC lifter allows for a "roller-like" ramp and lobe profile, so there's that....

 

[vintage chromoly]

In my RB in the coronet, I have a crower custom solid flat tappet with crower EDM lifters.

Kind of apples and oranges compared to what you are trying to achieve, as my engine is just slightly warmed up and basically a cruiser with some extra attitude.