Solid Rollers or Flat Tappet for street and strip. Looking for LONGEVITY and low maintenance!

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  1. 747mopar

    747mopar Well-Known Member

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    I'd have to go back and look but it's a fairly mild cam, just over 500" lift on the exhaust and just under on the intake with an rpm range of 1800-5800. The lifters are Comp Cam, I'm not real savvy on solid lifters seeing how this is the first ones I've ever ran but they have a pushrod cup with oil feed holes in the lifter body much like a hyd, it would appear that oil softens the noise since it's pumped in under the cup?

    Even though it's got an rpm range of 1800-5800 it really likes being shifted at 6,000, well rounded cam for my use.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  2. biomedtechguy

    biomedtechguy Accelerati Rapidus Maximus FBBO Gold Member

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    My understanding is that is what "EDM" lifters are, that I haven't heard of before some posts in this thread. Here's one description of "EDM" solid lifters:
    EDM flat tappet lifters provide the additional lubrication necessary for solid flat tappet applications with high spring pressures. These lifters have a 0.015-inch hole in the center of the lifter face to apply direct oiling to the cam/lifter interface.
    https://hotrodenginetech.com/edm-flat-tappet-lifters-johnson/
    Once again, I am learning a lot thanks to the forum.
    :luvplace::thankyou:
     
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    • Dodge 330

      Dodge 330 Well-Known Member

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      .545 lift, 234°/240° @ .050. I have no tach in the car and shift by ear. Limiter is at 6400, though. Once you've made enough passes, you know what a car likes. It has run 4 runs in a row within .01 and is super consistent. What it traps depends on if I am spraying or not. LOL!
       
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      • 440rb

        440rb Well-Known Member

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        Hi Bio, we are in an almost an identical situation to you with our '69 RR apart from the fact that we have a 4.500 stroke, 589ci, have 572-13 heads with spray bar oiling and Jesel r/gear and are only@10:1CR. The whole combo is a bit of a mismatch. We have a small solid roller .625"/260/270@.050 and will street drive like you, quite a few short trips to shows etc.etc. and with low rpm cruising and also 6>7 meets of brkt racing. We are somewhat concerned about the oiling system for st. use and have contacted "fast68" on going flat tappet as we do not relish the idea of having to keep the revs up@low rpm or at traffic stops etc. You will be in a better situation with the TF270 heads I believe, 572-13's have poor low lift and getting the air speed moving is going to be tough so we were looking at an SFT cam in the 700+" zone with 1.7 rockers and asked his opinion, this was his response>

        I don’t think a SFT cam is a good fit at all for that build.
        I’ve had no problems at all with the spray bar oiling...... but none of the guys I have using it are running on the street.

        Fast rate/high lift/high RR SFT combos aren’t what I consider “reliable” in street use scenarios.

        I’d leave it as is if it were me....... at least for the time being.

        If there is any question about the current lifters and street duty, that’s where I’d spend the money.

        If you decide to go SFT, then you just have to decide how close to the edge you’re willing to get.
        Fast rate SFT cams with high RR def aren’t all roses and unicorns.


        This is just a bit more info although rather specific to our combo, not so much for yours I think. You have some good guys advising you so I'm sure you'll get the right stuff to make things work for you. Our combo should really be a min of 12.5:1, .750+ roller etc. etc. but then our 6500rpm redline is blown away as is the street driving and our tyre size and gearing combo.
         
        Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
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        • BSB67

          BSB67 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          This seems to be the new popular subject. I have no idea what will be best for you. But here is the simple reality, the faster and higher you move the valve and spin the engine, the more spring pressure you will need. It does not matter what lifter you're using. The other reality is a good solid roller will always be better and out live a SFT under the same conditions. The question is how much do you want to spend and whether it's necessary.

          Every OEM has been using rollers for 30 years. Why? Not because they are cheaper. Also, when the cam manufacturers tell you need to use their EDM lifters for extra oil, little alarms should go off.

          I've used them all on the street. Unless I build something 500 HP or less, I'll never go back to FT cam.
           
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          • bearman

            bearman FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            This maybe been covered but didn't read it anywhere. The bushing used in the lifter galley what material is used and are there grooves in a spiral or straight cut to get oil down the side of the lifters. Or are they just a bushing taking up the tolerances.
             
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            • biomedtechguy

              biomedtechguy Accelerati Rapidus Maximus FBBO Gold Member

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              So, what is the best roller lifter for street use for: reliability and longevity?
               
            • bearman

              bearman FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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              Next thing is and maybe it's already been done. But here I go and if I'm crazy just say so. Can we still a whole into the rear oil galley and run a tube in the valley with nozzles in it to keep the lifters and cam more oiled up as street engine set at lights longer. Would this not benifit the longer life of the top end.
               
            • BSB67

              BSB67 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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              I don't know. Likely what ever is the most expensive. I wouldn't go with anything less than Red Zones.
               
            • 68 HEMI GTS

              68 HEMI GTS Well-Known Member

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              a set of 1990 Ford 5.0 OEM hyd rollers :lol::lol:
               
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              • biomedtechguy

                biomedtechguy Accelerati Rapidus Maximus FBBO Gold Member

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                I'm asking you what your experience has been since you said:
                 
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                • bearman

                  bearman FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                  I guess I need to look into the roller part does any of the manufacturers make the ceramic rollers yet. On heavy haul it's been out for years and have only seen one come apart. The mileage and wear on the cam is fantastic as unlike the steel rollers with bearings. The ceramic handle the abuse great and handles the heat.
                   
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                  • bearman

                    bearman FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                    Bio not trying to heist your thread just trying to find the best from every angle.
                     
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                    • 440rb

                      440rb Well-Known Member

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                      No real 1 answer for that, depends on whether you have bushed lifter bores or not. Whether you prefer needle bearings or bushed. If you don't have bushings in your bores then go with a solid body roller, with, cut outs for a lighter weight roller. With pushrod oiling or not, roller wheel size. From what I've read AMC rollers, comp 829-16's morell, Jesel, BAM, seem ok, take your pick, some swear by 1 make others have had issues with them, bit of a lottery. Generally oil hole in lifter nearest the roller, smallest gap from top of roller to where lifter body starts etc. etc. For street use frequent checks on your lash is still recommended. We will just have to see what happens with ours driving on the street, we don't know what lifters we have inside our motor, we have a Herbert cam which is more an older type grind which shouldn't be too fast a ramp and we have 200lbs seat on the springs.:praying:

                      Back when I was racing I ran sft cams on the street and 1 in a race only car, 1 was a .590" other a .650", no problems at all, we didn't remove inner springs for break in or use high zinc or anything special and had no probs, I don't know what they are making cams from these days but there were no real horror stories around back then, seems to be many these days. I think we will stick with a solid roller.
                       
                      Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
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                      • BSB67

                        BSB67 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                        Please re-read your question and my response. I don't know the "best" for the street use for the cam you're going to choose. But I did answer what I would use, which is what I do use.
                         
                      • biomedtechguy

                        biomedtechguy Accelerati Rapidus Maximus FBBO Gold Member

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                        So a good solid roller...
                        As far as cost goes, I don't want to throw money away, but I'm going to pony up for an aftermarket aluminum block and Molnar crankshaft and rods, so I have a LOT of concern about the longevity and not having failure or the need to rebuild the lifters, so I'm looking for what lifters are going to be best for that.
                         
                      • BSB67

                        BSB67 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                        I'm not sure if we're talking in circles or not. Red Zones is what I would use as to starting point for solid rollers.
                         
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                        • biomedtechguy

                          biomedtechguy Accelerati Rapidus Maximus FBBO Gold Member

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                          Great. That is a simple, easy to understand answer, and I appreciate it. Any confusion is my fault, so sorry, not trying to be difficult.
                          I'm just about to start the chapter in @andyf 's book on How to Build Max Performance Mopar Big Blocks on Valvetrain
                          20191214_164126.jpg
                           
                        • threewood

                          threewood FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                          I don't carry any expertise in engine building like some here but I do have 2 street cars, both running solid lifter cams. I like the simplicity in setting them up and the performance they give. I had heard too many stories of collapsed lifters and over pumped up lifters.

                          Use the right oil (I use VR1 or Joe Gibbs Driven) and they will last. I'm using an off the shelf Hughes cam, edm lifters, and Hughes rocker arms. I only pop the valve covers when I'm bored. Never found any that varied by much from the lash specs.
                           
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                          • HEMI-ITIS

                            HEMI-ITIS STREETER on LI FBBO Gold Member

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                            Red Zone BBM lifters never had pressurized oil to the needles or PR oiling ability. When 1st came out years ago I bought a set of Red Zone lifters,,,,they were advertised to all have this ability.Had words with Rich before doing as he requested and sent his "shit" back to him and getting Comp 848 lifters......In the history books now.
                             
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