Still need some part recommendations

[benno440]

Cant seem to get any hard facts on which engine parts would be the best way to go for my stroker.

505ci.
a833 4 speed OD (76 box)
489 8 3/4 true trac 3:55 rear.
car weight 1640kg

i want toi get rid of my 305/302 cam, my stealth heads, my ch28 intake and dual 500 cfm carbs.

i would like max wedge style ports, i would MAYBE like to keep dual quad.

can i get some good combo recommendations from some pros/ actual tests maybe.

I really dont want a heap of people saying 100 different items. i would like to finally get this engine running strgon and hard.

I.E
*Maybe max wedge port indy heads? (which ones?) how much port work? what valves etc.?
*what intake? weiand's (mopar) dual quad cross ram? indy mod man? indy bathtub? crossram? etc.
*what carbs? dual quickfuels? what size?
* custom grind cam? what qould be a rough size cam to start with? solid or hydraulic?

currently have 10.1 compression with stealth heads.
0 deck height, hydraulic cam.

street car with some track use. cruisability is preferred, fuel economy is not, i want to be able to smoke anything i come up against, looking for hopefully more than 600hp.

 

[benno440]

ORRRR,
can i make what i have work well? by just changing the carbs/cam or getting some head work done.

really feel lost here.

 

[Meep-Meep]

I think you need a cam that is better suited to your vehicle. I.E. low to mid range power. Your compression sounds good; heads are probably good. I'm guessing you have a high overlap cam now? Low idle vacuum and very lumpy idle?

 

[benno440]

it has low idle vacuum but no lump at all. I was talking to a very reputable engine builder, tuner and custom carb maker today, he said my cam is way too small and my carbs are too small.
he reckons I need a cam around the 350 @ .50 and 2 750 carbs not 500's.

 

[Propwash]

My 2 cents....I wouldn't ditch the stealth heads. If they're not ported already, i'd port them. As far as the cam goes, what you got should be well more than enough to propel you easily into the 600HP range. I run a 244/252 @50, .520/.540 lift and am sitting a tad over 630HP with the 512. Myself I'd ditch the the twin eddy set up, port the stealth's, port match a decent intake like the eddy performer rpm or indy DP and toss on a decent carb like a quickfuel q950 or comparable. Good luck what ever route you go Benno.

 

[coloradodave]

Benno; Was this a misprint?
he reckons I need a cam around the 350 @ .50 and 2 750 carbs not 500's.

 

[benno440]

nah thats what he has said Dave.

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anyone know what max size cfm you can go on the stealth heads?

Honestly i am sorry for continually asking similiar questions regarding this issue,
and i appreciate all the feedback, but i just want to get this motor running good and i dont have the coin that i used to have so i cant just rush out and buy stuff anymore.

I think i will keep the stealths (port them as big as they go) and change to a single carb, and decide on a really good intake, i used to have a rpm air gap but sold it a year ago haha. bear in mind carb and intake height is no issue on my car as i have the reverse cowl.

bit sad as i do love the look of the dual quads.

 

[Budnicks]

was he referring to camshaft lobe lift ??,
350* of duration your valves would almost never closed

It's only money...LOL... what's your budget ??

Personally I'd take it apart,
Have your current STD port Stealth heads, ported by a professional {like for example, our member IQ52/Jim LaRoy},
some big/major gains to be had there {they only low like 250-260cfm out of the box}...

what clutch are you running ?? just curious mainly

I'd highly recommend that you call & talk to Lunati Cams, Crane Cams or even Comp Cams,
or if you have a custom grinder down under that is a reputable guy/company
tell them your intended use & expectations for your camshaft selection
all the relevant information they will need to know to give you a good recommendation,
what rockers/ratios, what gears, what compression, what heads & gasket thicknesses, what bore size & stroke
{& what CFM/where they flow best @ specific gross valve lift}
what intake & carb/s you will be running {I'd if you want to keep the dual carbs}
maybe go to a better style 2x4bbl manifold {what you have can work, if set up correctly, it won't be ideal thou}
or better/different carbs like Quickfuel's or Holley's, real performance oriented carbs, out of the box...
I'd highly suggest getting some books on tuning whatever style/make carbs you end up with,
Edelbrocks or Whatever they end up being...

Those little 500cfm Edelbrock Performers {flow more like 370cfm/unmodified x 2 = 740cfm if they are set up correctly}
really not the best carbs for performance apps. even dual 4bbls, IMHFO anyway, without some serious modifications,
but it can be done thou...
But your giving up some HP/TQ probably thou...

what kind of fuel system do you have ??

what fuel do you run ??

what fuel pump {is it electric or mechanical} what GPM flow-rate & @ what fuel pressure ??

fuel tank ?? {or is it a cell}

regulator if you even have one ?? {is it a bypass style with a return line (highly recommended) or is it a dead head style}

what size fuel inlet supply line ?? {is it a stock 5/16" & pick-up}
it should be a minimum of 3/8"-#6AN or even better 1/2"-#8AN is better yet,
{along with the proper sized pickup & bypass regulator too}
you really need an ample fuel supply to feed 505ci 110gpm min. @ 5.5psi-7psi constant "flowing"
to get the most out of you fuel system, IMHFO anyway...

are you getting cool fresh air {outside the engine compartment}, into the intake/carbs or is it drawing heat from under the hood ??
there's some HP right there, a little more if it rammed or forced thru the air-cleaner/carbs

There are probably as many ways to change your combo, Increase the HP/TQ,
as we have members here, opinions will vary vastly...

Those are mine...

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My 2 cents....I wouldn't ditch the stealth heads. If they're not ported already, i'd port them. As far as the cam goes, what you got should be well more than enough to propel you easily into the 600HP range. I run a 244/252 @50, .520/.540 lift and am sitting a tad over 630HP with the 512. Myself I'd ditch the the twin eddy set up, port the stealth's, port match a decent intake like the eddy performer rpm or indy DP and toss on a decent carb like a quickfuel q950 or comparable. Good luck what ever route you go Benno.

exactly, it doesn't have to be over-cammed to work,
just properly cammed for it's intended usage, I like more lift & a little less duration if it will be mostly street driven...
my cam is very similar to Props... works great

 

[benno440]

the guy here i am talking to says he will port the heads out to 330cfm for me then we will select a suitable intake and work on it to suit, then he will design and make a custom cam for it, once all done he will build me a custom carb with his own designed cnc bowl etc. he states and alot of customers state that there is no better carb that he has ever come across, and alot of people say he is the best.

My fuel system, 98 octane ( i think this is equivalent to USA 95 octane) is standard 68 tank with 1/2" pickup, 1/2" fuel line into a checkvalve, then 1/2" line to a fuel filter in engine bay, then 1/2" line into a clay smith 6 valve mechanical fuel pump, then 1/2" line into a race pumps reg. which sits in front of intake. 2 x 6 an lines come off it to the carbs and a 4 an line back to tank. running a 2" reverse cowl with the air cleaner sitting above bonnet height with cool air coming from windscreen into it.


here is what the guy i have been talking to has said to me:

"Hi Ben ,
I understand completely what your goals are for your engine/car ,
The heads you have can be ported to flow 330 cfm so you don’t need to change them
The cost to port is for both heads and yes we can do them for you
The cam would be designed to suite the head flow so can’t give you a size until that’s done
I would keep the twin carb intake but if you wish to go back to a single there are some good ones which ever way you go they will need to be sized / ported to match your heads otherwise don’t bother porting your heads
The carbs I mentioned go from a factory sized venture for the cheaper ones [ only two sizes to choose from ] but the expensive ones are cnc’d to size based on mathematical calculations of air flow requirements of your engine hence why they make so much more power
Cam choice is important for what your trying to do get it wrong and power will be at the wrong rpm and the engine will be a maintenance pig
I have been doing this for a long time and take my cam designing very seriously and yet to get one wrong
The whole idea behind building ad engine and getting it right is to get the combo right if you mismatch parts it just becomes a waste of time and money and lack of power is the result .
You need an engine that will make good torque with instant throttle response and be able to carry the power to a reasonable rpm for your size engine you don’t need big rpm but you need more than what you have now .
I hope this gives you something to work with , cheers. "

"forget the dual plain intake there isn’t one big enough for your size engine ."

"I based the price on the indy heads that I did last and I will do them for that price keep in mind that you should decide on which intake and do the intake at the same time they have to work together , I can give you the best pair of heads but they will be useless unless the intake can feed them .also you need to let me know if your going to change your cam as the comp ratio will need to be adjusted now to suite what you do , also I will need some measurements taken and marks made on the heads and intake you have now before you pull the heads off so contact me before you pull them apart ."

 

[747mopar]

I have to agree about over camming, when I built my stroker (little feller 456") I based my cam decision on the intended rpm use. Your big cams make their power higher in the rpm range meaning if your cruising at 2,000 rpm and mash it with a cam suited for 3,000-7,000 rpm your going to be depressed. I have a cam that is intended for 1,500-5,500 rpm and it's very happy on the street with plenty of torque whenever you need it. I personally would ditch the dual Eddies yesterday, they make plenty big enough carbs now days to not need 2 and 2 means twice the headache. I guess most of my preferences are based on reliability, ease of maintenance and enjoyment so I always shy away from the BIG racy parts.

 

[coloradodave]

Benno: Anytime you're talking about having someone CNC their own carburetor and custom grinding you a cam, you're talking BIG money. As has been said above, the "secret" to a great street motor is 'the combination'. A lot of the parts you have installed on your beautiful car are trick, racing parts but for the most part are needlessly complicating your life. I have friends with 9 second race cars that wish they had your fuel system. You've told us what you want from your car and personally, I think it can be accomplished with the right combination of parts 'off the shelf'.
You've got this fellow's opinion, but it's just that; One opinion. Custom made carburetors and cams are for specialty built RACE CARS and are paid for with unobtainium, commonly called 'sponsorship' money. Also, casually saying that your compression ratio may 'have to be adjusted' is cheap to say but expensive to do. Personally, with all the questions you have, rather than listen to 100 different ideas (some may be great / some may be crap), I think I would contact one of many well known engine builders (Don @ 4secondsflat, IQ52 on this site, Hughe's Engines, Bob Mazzolini Racing, etc.) explain to them what you want and PAY them for their time to put together a combination for you, using as many of your existing parts as possible. A lot of the members here have lots of experience, and give good information, but to me it seems that you are kind of in limbo because you don't have a PLAN. My best to you. It would be good to see you totally happy with your ride...

BTW, probably the toughest challenge is to put 600 HP, blow anything away, some track time, emphasis on street driving and cruisability into the same motor.

 

[benno440]

thanks as always dave for the great advice

 

[Propwash]

Benno: Anytime you're talking about having someone CNC their own carburetor and custom grinding you a cam, you're talking BIG money. As has been said above, the "secret" to a great street motor is 'the combination'. A lot of the parts you have installed on your beautiful car are trick, racing parts but for the most part are needlessly complicating your life. I have friends with 9 second race cars that wish they had your fuel system. You've told us what you want from your car and personally, I think it can be accomplished with the right combination of parts 'off the shelf'.
You've got this fellow's opinion, but it's just that; One opinion. Custom made carburetors and cams are for specialty built RACE CARS and are paid for with unobtainium, commonly called 'sponsorship' money. Also, casually saying that your compression ratio may 'have to be adjusted' is cheap to say but expensive to do. Personally, with all the questions you have, rather than listen to 100 different ideas (some may be great / some may be crap), I think I would contact one of many well known engine builders (Don @ 4secondsflat, IQ52 on this site, Hughe's Engines, Bob Mazzolini Racing, etc.) explain to them what you want and PAY them for their time to put together a combination for you, using as many of your existing parts as possible. A lot of the members here have lots of experience, and give good information, but to me it seems that you are kind of in limbo because you don't have a PLAN. My best to you. It would be good to see you totally happy with your ride...

BTW, probably the toughest challenge is to put 600 HP, blow anything away, some track time, emphasis on street driving and cruisability into the same motor.

Very well put Dave...As well as Bud and Dev. I struggled trying to build a street car with a race car motor in it..lol It's so easy to cross that line into full out drag car, that it can become really expensive and a real headache in a hurry. Making sacrifices on both sides of the fence, and taking what's left and trying to make it all work together is one heck of a task. Thank god for all the great resources out there, including the very knowledgeable folks on this site, or I would have ended up with a pretty unpredictable, unreliable half leashed monster I probably wasn't happy with.

As far as the guy you're talking to...I can't say a whole lot, being I don't know him or his reputation. One thing I learned in life (especially in the service industry) is stay away from the guys that like to bang their own drum. They're salesmen more than anything else and when push comes to shove, they're usually the ones to fall on their face first. To me, it's all about letting their work speak for itself. Do not take their word for it. Be sure to research and reference anything he's done before pulling the trigger. There's several statements that don't hold water well. One would be:

"forget the dual plain intake there isn’t one big enough for your size engine"

I run a Indy Dual plane and have a few more Cubes than you. A Dual Plane will give you better throttle response, engine signal, and lower your RPM peak for HP/TQ. If you're spending more time on the street, that's what you want.

Also, like Dave mentioned, custom CNC parts are BIG money. You already have the cubes, and there is no replacement for displacement. There's plenty of bottled up power in the big stoker, and you don't need custom made, front page magazine sponsorship parts in that pretty little Charger, to easily get it to your goal of 600HP or more. Big thing is get that puppy to breathe, port those heads, port match a decent intake, find a cam that's going to be suitable for you typical RPM range and driving style. If two, three trips to the drag strip a year is all she's gonna see, there is absolutely no need for some choppy radical cam jamming those valves open .575....600...650. No need for a crazy duration to turn your engine into sounding and running like a black lunged coal miner after a pack of Pall Mall's. The beauty of all those cubes is you can still have a ton of power and still have a smooth, responsive engine without tossing on NASA parts and a King Kong cam.

 

[benno440]

also well put, well I know im getting the heads done, now I got to work out an intake, carb and cam, would love to keep dual quads but just don't have the money or experience.
maybe one day down the track

 

[coloradodave]

Benno: Propwash is the voice of experience, as in, 'been there, done that'. And, he's a pretty funny and witty guy as well. Thanks, Propwash, I enjoyed that...lol

 

[Propwash]

Benno: Propwash is the voice of experience, as in, 'been there, done that'. And, he's a pretty funny and witty guy as well. Thanks, Propwash, I enjoyed that...lol

Thank you sir for your kind accolades. I appreciate it. I spend more time here learning vs. teaching, but if I can offer up my 2 cents to try and help someone out, i'm more than glad to. Folks like yourself and many others have helped me with priceless tips, tricks, knowledge and ideas over the years. I think were all pretty lucky now a days to have such a wealth of information and people willing to share, it's actually made this hobby much more enjoyable. Have a good weekend!

 

[benno440]

I totally agree, I have been given a lot of useful information on here, as well as a lot of non useful haha.
but the select few have always been very helpful, It would be good to sit down and have a beer with you guys one day.
I truly appreciate it.

 

[coloradodave]

Are you offering us a trip down under to share some Fosters? Man, I knew I liked you!

 

[benno440]

anything but fosters, ill offer you a bed but that's one hell of an expensive offer haha.

 

[snakeyes]

how's this beer