Where Is The Cut Off?

[Furyous64]

Try to Build a serious street car/mild track car, at what HP level does it seem everything needs to be beefed up? Big HP motor = Trans, driveshaft, rear end to hold it, not to mention brakes to stop it! When is enough-enough? high Ten car would be fun, but my budget is looking like a 14 car in the making! what to do, what to do.

 

[moparpoor]

High ten second car doesn't really require much.A standard stroke pump gas 440 will due.727 trans with a rebuild with good quality parts will handle the job! Decent axles and posi unit will take a great deal of abuse.The only thing I would suggest that may seem trick is step up to 1350 ujoints when you order your drive shaft. A good operational set of factory disc brakes up front and drum in the rear will handle the stopping. The biggest challenge is the combination of parts.

 

[womanator]

A high 10 second car weighing 3000 lbs needs 410 hp to the rear wheels.
Going to a 3500 lbs car would need 480 hp to the rear wheels.

Now 14 second b body weighing 4200 lbs with driver would need around 310 to the rear wheels.

hope this helps.

 

[Budnicks]

Try to Build a serious street car/mild track car, at what HP level does it seem everything needs to be beefed up? Big HP motor = Trans, driveshaft, rear end to hold it, not to mention brakes to stop it! When is enough-enough? high Ten car would be fun, but my budget is looking like a 14 car in the making! what to do, what to do.

Somethin like a mild hydr./solid street/strip performance camshaft full kit, a multi Anglel performance valve job {cylinder head porting is a great performance boost}, Aluminum dual plane or single plane 4bbl, 2x4bbl or 6bbl intake, better fuel pump, larger fuel lines, pick up & quality filters, a better/hotter ignition system incl. box, dist., wires & coil {like a MP CEI dist. & orange box, at a minimum}, free flowing headers, a better free flowing gauze type air-filter elementet {like K&N or Air Raid etc.}, better/larger free flowing manderal bent exhaust w/either a H or X-pipe installed, slightly higher stall speed TQ converter/or better clutch, a little steeper/lower rear gear ratio {like a 3.73:1- 3.91:1- 4.10:1}, beefy drive-shaft & universals, taller/wider & better/stickier tires, some form of traction aids of some sort, subframe connectors, better performance shocks {adjustable pref.}, larger front & rear sway bars {especially if it's a street car}, better front brakes & better brake flex lines {disc's pref.}, improved cooling system... That's a decent formula & pretty durable/dependable, without braking a ton of stuff, when you hammer the skinny pedal... probably in around the range of 425-475hp level you will start having some serious parts failures, if stuff isn't of quality durable componants... IMHFO as soon as you add slicks or drag radials, you really need to get higher quality beefier HD/Race componants...

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

you can get away with alot of stock parts in the street.Once you get traction at a track is where your weak links will start breaking.I broke alot of sh......................parts through the years.How many times have I heard someone say,,,,,,,that's not supposed to break!

 

[383man]

I have run 10.70's in my 3700 lb 63 with alot of stock parts that really should be replaced before they break. I am still using a stock 8-3/4 rear with 4.30's that has held up fine so far and it still has stock axles. But I only have 7 passes on my 493. Its a 440 with a 4.15 stroker crank. Its a pump gas eng and I race thru the full exh and even drive it to the track most of the time. I am also using an 850 DP carb Holley which is nothing fancy. Body is all stock and I use a stock gas tank. I did upgrade to a 3/8 sending unit and 3/8 fuel line. Built my 727 myself and I uses stock Mopar clutches and steel plates. The only updates to my tranny are a bolt in sprag and a reverse manual valve body. I use a Dynamic 9.5 converter also. I do plan to pull the tranny out soon and update the front drum. I have a steel eng mount on the drivers side and the stock rubber mount on the passenger side. The suspension is all stock other then SS springs and 90/10 comp shocks up front. So far the best 60 is 1.50 at 10.76 on 30 x 9 Hoosier radial slicks. Its a fine line on when to really start updating to heavy duty parts. My feeling was when my car was in the mid 11's alot of stock parts held up. But now I am worried so when I can afford it I plan to go to a Dana rear. Ron

 

[dvw]

Though not a big block or a B-Body my street car has run 11.0 for years. Stock 727 w/ PTC 9' converter and Turbo Action manual valve body. 8 3/4, Just added aftermarket axles. Ran the stockers for over 20 years,no failures. Ran a stock small u-joint Duster drive shaft, no failures. Stock 340 block,crank,heads with a blower, same parts since 1985 untill i upgraded the block 5 years ago. The 1st one never failed. I built an Eddy headed 440 for my buddys 69 GTX. Same drivetrain,10.90s.
Doug

 

[RamNBee]

First and foremost figure out exactly what you want from the car and build to that. If your heart is set on a 10 second car as opposed to a fun street car, than there are many ways to get there. I am building a CHEAP mostly strip car that I hope to run 11.50's. I pick that performance level because that is the break before more expensive safety items such as a roll bar is required. Also because my car will be more of a Test-n-Tune car and not a competitive bracket racer. I will run street/trophy at the MoPar shows and the 7.49 1/8 mile class at the local track. Having a specific plan for the car helps me budget for the parts that will get me there without wasting money on stuff that is overkill or I don't need. Best of all I can use parts I have left over from other projects to keep cost low.

- - - Updated - - -

Also read a lot on here and forabodies only and you can learn a lot and avoid mistakes. There is a wealth of experience and knowledge here. Look at the "Combo" threads for guidance.

 

[Furyous64]

I am with you on the the 11.49 time slip RamNBee, Ideally 11.55 on track and 10.80's car on the street, surprise a few people and save money without going with belts, cage, fire jacket etc.. While shopping parts there really isnt "budget" build. I would like to do things right the first time as the car is torn apart to nothing almost, put in "overkill" parts so I dont have to worry about snap and crack on the track when I do take it there! I would like a 512 cu inch, dana 60 w/ 727, who wouldnt? 600Hp stroker built from scratch will run about 10-12k complete carb to pan from what ive gathered with machine work done. throw a dana and built trans and say hello to 16k-ish, but the peace of mind that nothing should break.... THEN I think to hell with it and built a mild 440 and everything can remain stock, lol. Im guesssing the 1964 fury to weigh in the 3500-3700 range

 

[RamNBee]

I agree with you that things should be done right the first time. It is more expensive to do it wrong/cheaply twice. Every build is a "budget" build. Some budgets are bigger than others. If your budget allows for a 600 hp stroker than that is your budget. My point is that if you plan your performance level and budget for it, than you can buy the best parts to achieve that level. For example, look at Super Street/ Hot Rod class cars. The index is 10.90 meaning you lose if you run quicker. This class was suppose to be for entry level racers that wanted to race at national events without costs of class racing. People are spending over 50k to run 10.90. Not the same thing I know, but it shows how much you can spend. For the cost of that 600 hp stroker, you can build an 10 second 64 using high quality parts. It has been done and I would guess by several members of this forum. Good Luck and enjoy your car. 64 's are one of my favorites.

 

[arizona satellite]

furyous, sounds like you know what you want to build and what is in your budget. as was stated before, ask as many question about whatever parts you plan to use, learn from the vast knowledge that this site has available. some stock parts are great some not so great, so find the weak points and replace them with better quality parts. I have a "budget" or as I call it my tax season project and it is a std bore 440 block std steel crank H beam rods and KB pistons topped off with 440 source heads and a comp cam 305 h. I am into this long block about 3k. I did A LOT a research to find what I felt was a solid and reliable combo. now the drive line is quite solid with a hughes built 727 a mopar J converter and a MW Dana 60 w 4.10's. bottom line is do your research plan your budget and dont settle for parts you "hope will live". wait and do it right , the first time. good luck.

 

[moparpoor]

My 64 weighs in at 3700lbs with a 270lb driver with gutted interior and cage.451rb 11.2 to 1 cr indy ez maxwedge cnc ported heads,factory crank,factory recon rods,kb pistons,small roller cam,stud girdle,holley hp1000.The car has a best of 10.76 at 125mph on a 9"tire with ss springs,sliders,and air shocks.The car was put together with left over parts I had laying around.The only new parts are drive shaft and the top end on the motor.The 512 with the indy ez maxwedge port will put your ride well into the low tens on pump gas.Dana will handle the job for many years and is money well spent!!!! The long arm 4.25 stroke big block will play havoc on factory drive shaft and axles at the track!!! The 727 with a good rebuild with quality parts will handle the job just fine. You don't have to spend a ton of money to reach your goal.A few key areas to spend the money are the dana rear.At this power level bullet proof.The same for a quality 3" driveshaft with 1350 joints.727 doesn't require any major mods just a few safety components.As for the motor a MM or 440 source bottom end will do just fine.400 with factory caps and girdle is fine.Indy ez heads use factory style rockers and standard headers.Big cost savings their!I put my car together paint and body work and all for just over 10grand.

 

[383man]

My 64 weighs in at 3700lbs with a 270lb driver with gutted interior and cage.451rb 11.2 to 1 cr indy ez maxwedge cnc ported heads,factory crank,factory recon rods,kb pistons,small roller cam,stud girdle,holley hp1000.The car has a best of 10.76 at 125mph on a 9"tire with ss springs,sliders,and air shocks.The car was put together with left over parts I had laying around.The only new parts are drive shaft and the top end on the motor.The 512 with the indy ez maxwedge port will put your ride well into the low tens on pump gas.Dana will handle the job for many years and is money well spent!!!! The long arm 4.25 stroke big block will play havoc on factory drive shaft and axles at the track!!! The 727 with a good rebuild with quality parts will handle the job just fine. You don't have to spend a ton of money to reach your goal.A few key areas to spend the money are the dana rear.At this power level bullet proof.The same for a quality 3" driveshaft with 1350 joints.727 doesn't require any major mods just a few safety components.As for the motor a MM or 440 source bottom end will do just fine.400 with factory caps and girdle is fine.Indy ez heads use factory style rockers and standard headers.Big cost savings their!I put my car together paint and body work and all for just over 10grand.

Moparpoor we would be a good race as my best et right now is also a 10.76. Also guys dont forget you dont have to put a full cage in it to run 10's if you have the stock firewall. You need at least a 6 point rollbar which I have and I have the safety belts which are not a big deal. And I do have to wear a fire jacket when racing. But thats the only major things I can think off as I am legal to 10.0's. Going in the 9's you have to do alot more. I could put a full cage in mine but since its a street car its less chance of hitting my head on the rollbar when street driving with the 6 point bar. And I rolled a car about 5 times back in the 80's with just a rollbar and it worked and saved my life. Ron

 

[womanator]

To run faster than 11.00 you also have to have a sfi balancer,trans blanket or shield.
And I can't remember if it's below 11.00 or 9.99 that you can't have any rubber fuel line.

 

[moparpoor]

Moparpoor we would be a good race as my best et right now is also a 10.76. Also guys dont forget you dont have to put a full cage in it to run 10's if you have the stock firewall. You need at least a 6 point rollbar which I have and I have the safety belts which are not a big deal. And I do have to wear a fire jacket when racing. But thats the only major things I can think off as I am legal to 10.0's. Going in the 9's you have to do alot more. I could put a full cage in mine but since its a street car its less chance of hitting my head on the rollbar when street driving with the 6 point bar. And I rolled a car about 5 times back in the 80's with just a rollbar and it worked and saved my life. Ron

Maybe we can get together this year at Norwalk for the mopar world finals I believe in September! We talked about it last year!

 

[actionange1]

To run faster than 11.00 you also have to have a sfi balancer,trans blanket or shield.
And I can't remember if it's below 11.00 or 9.99 that you can't have any rubber fuel line.

And aftermarket axles...

 

[383man]

To run faster than 11.00 you also have to have a sfi balancer,trans blanket or shield.
And I can't remember if it's below 11.00 or 9.99 that you can't have any rubber fuel line.

Yes I have an SFI balancer as I forgot that one. Have a trans blanket but not on the car yet. I also still run stock axles but no one has even asked me about the axles or a trans blanket. The blanket is going on in a few weeks. I really want to go to a Dana when I get the moola. Where I have flevible fuel line I use braided line. But I will be lucky if I get it to the track twice this year. Ron

 

[Furyous64]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I will just take one thing at a time and over the course of a few years have what I think I want, haha. A stroker may be a bit of a dream, Im not against a built 440 they are capable of serious power and by saving the $2500 (stroker kits) thats money to go elsewhere! I dont live near a track so the smart thing would be to build a fun street car.

 

[RamNBee]

Trust me, it is a lot more fun and a lot less work to enjoy driving a slower car than to have a fast car that is not enjoyable. I have seen a lot of fast "street cars" parked or sold for these reasons. Good Luck and Enjoy!

 

[Budnicks]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I will just take one thing at a time and over the course of a few years have what I think I want, haha. A stroker may be a bit of a dream, Im not against a built 440 they are capable of serious power and by saving the $2500 (stroker kits) thats money to go elsewhere! I dont live near a track so the smart thing would be to build a fun street car.

Have fun 1st, that's what it's all about... consistancy wins braket races, not always the fastest car...