Valvetrain clatter/noise

[1STMP]

1st.

Try this on the noisy cyls [ 1, 3, 5 correct? ]. Do on the int & exh lifter. An assistant would be helpful.

Pick a cyl & rotate engine by hand until the valve is closed. Loosen the r/shaft bolts 2 turns & watch to see if the p'rod cup moves up in the lifter. It should. Snug shaft bolts & repeat test until all 6 lifters have been checked.
If the cups do not move, you need longer prods.
If they do move, you could have faulty lifters.
What I have had happen a few times: no matter how long I ran the engine, I had a few clackers. I had to drive the car & give it a WOT burst up to 5000 rpm & that would fix it. Good luck!

Thanks Geoff 2. Will do this tomorrow.
Drove this jalopy around the block today.
I've got to say, if I ever get this thing tuned
and running optimal, it's easy to see why
a select few are hooked on Mopar giddy--up.
Even running poorly, one can feel the
potential. This motor is torque personified.
And it's just a mild build.

 

[1STMP]

Removed the valve cover on 1,3,5,7 bank
after run in. 1,3,5 were still noisy. Found a
few problems we overlooked when the
first inspection took place.

Cracked and smashed out of round rocker
shaft. You can see the Crack in the first pic.
When we reinstalled the shafts we took
proper care to torque to 25 ft lbs. They're
out of round by .015.

Pushrod on #3 intake punched thru the rocker.
The lifter on that cam lobe shows no damage
as does the lobe. The engine didn't see
anything over 2000 rpm.

I'm also concerned as to the locks on a couple
of the valves seem to be pulling thru the
retainers.
I see now why the builder used an oddball
length pushrods. With smashed rocker shafts,
setting pushrod lengths with any accuracy
is dang near impossible.
Plan for tomorrow is to check and make sure
we didn't kiss a piston with a valve.
We tapped on the valve stems with a brass
hammer and all have bounce, none were
stuck.

 

[Geoff 2]

Bottom pic above is a time bomb, lucky you caught it NOW.

 

[1STMP]

Bottom pic above is a time bomb, lucky you caught it NOW.

Geoff 2,
I would assume the sunk locks would affect
installed valve spring height. As you seem
to be pretty knowledgeable with suspected
valvetrain issues, what would be the main
cause of sunken locks, and a viable fix?
Can't thank you enough for any expertise.
One other thing, if that valve stem is sunk,
why are all valve stem tops even?

 

[Wietse]

In that last picture it seems that valve locks and spring retainer are level on both. It looks more like the position of the groove in the valve stem sits in different heights than they are actually being pulled through. When they pull through as they cannot handle the spring pressure the spring retainer start to sit higher than the locking segments. For that reason they recommend 10* valve locks instead of 7* when using higher spring rates.
This difference will result in different spring installed heights and cause your noise as well due to “loose” springs.

 

[padam]

Looks like the valve stem is pulling out of the lock, not the lock thru the retainer.
Mismatched parts?

 

[Wietse]

Different type/brand valves i think.
Because if that is caused by the valve lock came free of the valve stem groove that valve would have dropped already.

 

[PRHeads]

I would pull the retainer off this one and measure from the top of the lock groove to the top of the valve.
Making note of what type of lock groove the valve has...... single or double groove.
That measurement can be compared to a known stock valve.

I suspect the top of the valve has been ground down some.

 

[Daves69]

I dislike casting doubt, but after seeing this stuff, I don't know I'd trust anything to hold up on those heads.

 

[1STMP]

All of the exhaust valves have been replaced
after checking the build sheet. Sealed Power
V1900 4 groove stem.
I'm thinking the rocker shafts are the main
culprit for the screwed up geometry.
I'll check the installed heights of the springs
again.
Thanks all...

 

[PRHeads]

The valve that has the short looking tip length is an intake valve, no?...... which are either single or double groove.

The factory single groove intake valves are pretty uncommon.

 

[PRHeads]

Looks like the valve stem is pulling out of the lock, not the lock thru the retainer.
Mismatched parts?

The retainers look like Crane parts.

 

[padam]

It looks like the rocker can't be making proper contact with the valve stem, possibly even hitting the retainer.
No way I would run that.

 

[PRHeads]

It def should all get a thorough look over.

 

[Geoff 2]

My guess is the wrong valve lock has been. The locks on the faulty valve look to be rounded on top, while the locks on the 'good' valve behind it look to be flat. Could just be the pic though.
Needs a close inspection of the type of groove in the valve, & how many [ circular or stepped with a defined edge ] & compare with the locks. Also the angle of the locks need to suit the angle machined in the retainer.

 

[Geoff 2]

This could also be your noise.....
The raised retainer could be hitting the rocker arm.

 

[1STMP]

Thanks, Geoff 2,
The pic is intake and exhaust from cyl 3
where the pushrod speared the rocker.
The camera angle is deceiving. The valve
stem heights are the same.
I checked the damaged rocker for contact
with the retainer. There was none.
I'm going to order a new shaft assembly
from 440 Source. I think with the 2" long
crack in the shaft and it being flattened,
it is messing things up trying to get an
accurate pushrod length measurement.
When we installed the 9.317 pushrods
on the 2,4,6,8 bank, the valvetrain noise
went away.

 

[Gunner1]

There is no way I would run that valve as it is. That WILL unseat the locks and drop the valve. Without having it in front of me my guess is a miss matched part again. It looks like the rocker was contacting the split locks already. What a headache you must have. But look at the bright side. Your learning a ton about your motor. And I’m enjoying following along. I hope this is the last of your problems.

 

[Geoff 2]

The pic in post 177. And only able to go by the pic but the two valve look like different brands. The chamfer is different, as is the colour. If they are different brands, then they might use different lock designs, & the position on the valve stem could also be different, which could explain the differences in the pic. If this is so, then there may be nothing wrong with those two valve assys, but they should be checked considering the other anomalies that have been found.

 

[1STMP]

There is no way I would run that valve as it is. That WILL unseat the locks and drop the valve. Without having it in front of me my guess is a miss matched part again. It looks like the rocker was contacting the split locks already. What a headache you must have. But look at the bright side. Your learning a ton about your motor. And I’m enjoying following along. I hope this is the last of your problems.

Howdy, Gunner,
Yes, headaches abound, but there's no quit
in me. With input from members here, I'm
gonna get this problem figured out.
I'm in the middle trying to figure out what
the builder put together vs what works.
I'm kinda PO'd about this motor, as I paid
for his services in good faith. At one time
he was very reputable.