Hemi vs. 440

A bit late to the party - I was away for a couple of days - but here are my thoughts for consideration.

We can argue for days in general about which is better, a 440 vs. a Hemi: performance wise, value wise, etc. None of that really matters in this case because it is a very personal decision for 68BabyBlue.

70chall440 said:

if I had a wedge car that I had grown up with, loved and cherished where basically when I look at it I am seeing an old friend, I would find it very difficult to exchange it just to have a Hemi anything

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This is the way I am. I have a 73 Road Runner that was my first car and that has a lot of memories. It is not worth a lot monetarily but it IS worth a fortune to me in memories. I can still say "Yeah, I remember my first car - there it is!".

Having said that, I think the "memories" issue is the crux of the decision. @68BabyBlue : If you get rid of both of your cars, will you end up regretting the loss of them because of the memories they hold (not performance or style)? If the answer to that is no, based on the situation you described above in a couple of posts, it sounds to me like you would be better off with one really nice Hemi car. However, if you may have regrets about getting rid of either of your current cars, then I would hold off. Only you can answer the question about the memories and personal bond you have with your current cars.

Based on what you have said, it sounds like you are willing to let your current cars go and are not too tied up with memories. So bottom line is from what I have read and heard so far, I would suggest selling them both and getting a super nice Hemi car you will enjoy.

Good Luck!

Hawk

Imperial One said:

Now the Hemi may idle like a coffee can full of rocks,

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Amen to that.

These are the two actual cars from 1969 that got me into this . The 440 GTX is the car I have the memories with, not the ones I currently own. It was the personal family car of the local dealer in State College back in the day. I test drove it when it was new, I was 16, came of age trying to buy it. Dealer kept it for 15 years, never would sell it to me. Gave me good advice to buy on the open market, save money, which I did. He eventually sold it for 3 times what I paid for either of my first two GTXs, in 1977 and 1983. I've made obscene offers to the current owner, as much as the price of a hemi and he won't sell. So be it. But that's the car that holds the memories, which are worth more to me than what's under the hood.

The hemi road runner was indeed the "prettiest girl at the dance." It sat in the show room for a year before being sold, and I spent hours drooling over that engine compartment. After the original owner passed, it became an urban legend that every local Mopar guy with money tried to buy from the widow. Even Rob Clark, who eventually took over the dealership, couldn't get her to part with it. I tracked down the guy who was finally able to buy it from her, and after he sold it, the car dropped off the face of the earth.

At this chapter of my life, I haven't been able to get the car with the memories, so I'm prepared for to go for one like the legend.

Hemi vs 440 is like Blonde vs Brunette. There are no losers.

Back in the old days (before 2020) when we had car events, I regularly drove my manual steering, manual drum brakes 4-speed car 75+ miles to WI Mopar shows. Along with being a wild animal when the mood strikes, she's also a nice, reliable highway cruiser.

hsorman said:

A bit late to the party - I was away for a couple of days - but here are my thoughts for consideration.

We can argue for days in general about which is better, a 440 vs. a Hemi: performance wise, value wise, etc. None of that really matters in this case because it is a very personal decision for 68BabyBlue.


This is the way I am. I have a 73 Road Runner that was my first car and that has a lot of memories. It is not worth a lot monetarily but it IS worth a fortune to me in memories. I can still say "Yeah, I remember my first car - there it is!".

Having said that, I think the "memories" issue is the crux of the decision. @68BabyBlue : If you get rid of both of your cars, will you end up regretting the loss of them because of the memories they hold (not performance or style)? If the answer to that is no, based on the situation you described above in a couple of posts, it sounds to me like you would be better off with one really nice Hemi car. However, if you may have regrets about getting rid of either of your current cars, then I would hold off. Only you can answer the question about the memories and personal bond you have with your current cars.

Based on what you have said, it sounds like you are willing to let your current cars go and are not too tied up with memories. So bottom line is from what I have read and heard so far, I would suggest selling them both and getting a super nice Hemi car you will enjoy.

Good Luck!

Hawk

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Well, the plot thickens. My wife has said keep Baby Blue as long as I'm working, sell the Track Pak car, and go for the Hemi. Thanks to all of you who gave your input!

68BabyBlue said:

Well, the plot thickens. My wife has said keep Baby Blue as long as I'm working, sell the Track Pak car, and go for the Hemi. Thanks to all of you who gave your input!

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Good luck with your search. Obviously if your wife has specified a numbers matching hemi car this might take a bit longer. Lots of non numbers matching hemi cars out there if you want to shorten the search time (and $$$).

Looking forward to seeing what you buy.

Buy her a bigger rock and sneak the hemi car in on the back side of the deal and keep them all!

I have the tire for a Hemi but not the bank account...YET!!!

68BabyBlue said:

on my Peterbilt 379

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Let's see that Pete!!!

@68BabyBlue

LET'S SPEND YOUR MONEY!

How about this one over on autabuy:

1968 Coronet R/T Hemi 4 speed


75 photos there.

This HEMI 4-speed equipped 1968 Dodge Coronet R/T began as a bone dry, rust free Tennessee car prior to its rotisserie restoration, completed in 2019. Aside from shake down to dial the car in, it has been driven ZERO miles. This R/T is Concours show ready. The odometer displays a mere 36,353 miles. It is one of only 219 HEMI powered examples made in 1968. According to all available records, this is a 1-of-1 as equipped. This is corroborated by the original Fender Tag. She is factory finished in SS1 Sunfire Yellow with 31B Black Bumblebee Stripe over Black Vinyl. Low back bucket seats flank center console and 4-speed manual shifter. The dash gauges are complete with the 577 code Factory Dash Tach. The interior is all new, soft trim by Legendary Auto Interior. Everything else is either original restored or NOS original. Very little reproduction parts were used in this restoration, and only when no other alternative was available. The engine bay and drivetrain are clean as a whistle and OE detailed down to the inspection marks and date coded plug wires. This genuine ""J"" code HEMI car features a non-VIN stamped, date code correct block which is believed to be original to the car by both the current and previous owners. They did not consistently VIN stamp '68 engines, particularly in the early production run. The A-833 transmission is numbers matching and original the the car, as is the 3.54 Sure Grip Dana 60 rear-end. The entire drivetrain assembly was rebuilt to OEM factory specifications and engineered to run on modern pump gas. The Dana 60 third member was powder coated during the course of its rebuild. The exterior fit and finish exceeds anything Chrysler was capable of in 1968. The car was taken down to bare metal and painted in October 2019 with 2-stage PPG Deltron. The entire vehicle was wet sanded and polished to a mirror finish and then Ceramic coated for the ultimate in paint protection. The original bumpers were rechromed and reinstalled. All of the glass is brand new ECS date-coded glass. Everyting else, such as stainless, door handles, mirrors, grills, moldings, and bezels are either NOS or original restored items. Very few reproduction parts were used in this restoration. The Goodyear Polyglas Red Streak tires ride on factory body color wheels and one-year-only Dodge dogdish hubcaps. The undercarriage is pristine and OEM correct, right down to the date coded exhaust and resonators by ECS. This Concours rotisserie restoration is, quite simply, as good as it gets. If you are looking for an investment quality '68 HEMI B-body for your collection, stop. You've found it! Additional undercarriage photos forthcoming... VALUATION RESEARCH: Hagerty #1 Condition, 1968 Dodge Coronet R/T HEMI $116,000 4-spd +20% = $139,200.00 Comparable Auction Transactions: There have been no other 1968 Dodge Coronet R/T HEMI 4-spds sold at auction within the last 5 years. A 1968 Plymouth Road Runner Column Automatic in #1 Condition SOLD for $165,000 in 2018 A 1968 Plymouth GTX HEMI 4-speed in #1 Condition SOLD for $126,500 in 2015 Several 1968 Dodge Charger HEMI R/T 4-speeds in #1 Condition have SOLD for about $150,000 to as much as $176,000 within the last year.

Here's the link:

https://www.autabuy.com/details/?vid=71752382&Year=1968&Make=Dodge&Model=Coronet R/T Hemi&ref=search

This one over on Facebook had my attention. I've been saving it because it's near me and a great looking car.

1969 Mr. Norm's Hemi Super Bee 4 speed.



1969 Mr. Norm's Hemi Super Bee 4 speed. Fully Documented 3 owner car. 19,000 original miles on the body. Rotisserie restored rust free car.
F8 Green. Black top and black interior. Bench seat w/headrests. Power disc brakes. Manual steering. Warranty Block. Matching numbers transmission.
All the Mr. Norm's paperwork and buildsheet, original license plate etc.
$138,000. No trades. Livonia, MI.
Serious buyers please use PM.

He's at $129,500 now. It's in a private group "Mopars for Sale". You would need to join (free) to see it. If this turns your crank I will send you link one you've joined. The warranty block might be a deal killer for you though.

Good luck.

69hemibeep said:

Mines going out this weekend. View attachment 1060947

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Beautiful car!

hemi*guy said:

Beautiful car!

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Thanks

I do love the Hemi org. or aftermarket
for racecars applications, had many
hands down the best engine style for
fuel injected &/or Boosted/Blown applications

I've driven quite a few street versions,
my buddy Roland, from Concord had many of them
(all his cars were spot on correct too, he was sort of a douche)
pretty much every year of B & E Body Hemi car
most in 100% stock form/factory spec.'s & tuned

IMO overall performance was sort of a let down
I was expecting a lot more, honestly
power was good
sound was great
didn't feel a whole bunch different from a well equipt
440 or 440-6 in stock trim
handling was poor
braking was substandard
get it up in the RPM range it started to work better
you rarely are in that range in street driven mode
we did do a lot of gear grabbing from stoplight to stoplight

I drove his 70 Hemi 'cuda 4 speed super track-pack car
to the shows all the time,
Sacramento Concord Reno CarCraft Oakland RS etc.
You can say I knew that car well
he usually drove his 32 Ford 5 window coupe Hemi/727tf Dana-60 equipt

I line up against him a few times at Fremont Raceway
my 68 Charger R/T 440 727tf, him in the 'cuda
I would beat him more times than not,
both ran in the range of 13.30-50 105-7

I know I was a better driver, he had lower gears (he spun more too)
but the cars were pretty evenly matched

I still love the Hemi's

Don't get me wrong, still loved driving them
the mystique of being behind the wheel of a
true icon, the Hemi Muscle Car

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maybe have to blow it up some I could go any farther it gets too distorted
a good old article true comparison













don't shoot the messenger, It was my list

Car Craft did a list of all time 50 fastest Muscle Cars
#1 a Viper
#2 65 Cobra 427 side oiler
#3 69 Vette 427 L88 or 70 454 LS6 Vette tied
#4 Chevelle 454 SS/450hp/LS6
(IMO all sportscars (except the LS6 Chevelle), not true Muscle cars
so the 69.5 A-12 RR should be #2 of real muscle cars)

69.5 440-6bbl A-12 Road Runner was #5 @12.91 - 111+
1st or 2nd real midsize BB 2 dr Muscle Car on the list


70 Hemi 'cuda was #7 @13.34 - 107+

70 Hemi RR #15 @13.10 - 107+

69.5 Super Bee 440-six pack A-12 #21 @13.56 - 105+

71 Road Runner 440-6 #32 13.71 - 101+

71 'cuda 440-6bbl #33 13.72 - 106+

71 Super Bee 426 Hemi #35 13.73 - 104+

7 of the top 50 all-time, up-to like early 2000's (?)

pretty respectable showing

they'd all be bumped back a few spots today
With the new tech & traction control 707+ hp
Demon, Hellcat etc.
------------------------------------------------------

68 Hemi advert.

Love it.

"It's gotta be voodoo baby!" I remember when I saw that for the first time. Best advert ever.

I'll add to my original comment.

I used to own a B5 blue 1969 GTX convertible. Bought it in 1990 , Used it in my wedding 1992 , brought my oldest daughter home from the hospital in it 1997
I sold the car late 90s trying to buy a 1969 GTX vert, hemi auto. ( didnt buy the hemi car btw ,,,long story )
Anyway, the moment i saw it drive away I knew I sold the wrong car right then and there . So I called the guy who bought it the day after he picked it up . And offered him $1000 more than he just paid me for it. No deal he said the car was great .


Log story short I looked for it the almost 2 years and cant find the car ( last known location was Las Vegas area )
I bought my 66 Satellite because Ive known the previous owner for over 30 years . I helped restore the car back around 2000 or so ( give or take a few years )

If my old GTX pops up now, I cant do anything about it. Would it be cool to know where its at?? maybe. Im not sure I want to know.
NOW, would I trade my current car for that old GTX, ? I dont think so . Would I try to buy it as an addition? Maybe but I dont think the piggy bank would allow it . I made my decision to make new memories with my girls ( now 23 and 20 in ages ) with the car I have now.
I drive it and drive it whenever I get the chance. Ive put over 1000 miles on it since purchase the end of Sept .
BOTH my girls love the car . And are dying to drive it . There time will come sooner than later that im sure of....
They can argue who gets to be caretaker of it once Im breathing dirt .

Old memories vs. new ones - even more fertile territory for discussion than Hemi vs. 440. My memories from my first relationship with Baby Blue are rough, one of the worst periods of my life. After selling my first GTX to pay for law school tuition in 1981, my wife and I sold our house when I graduated. We were totally broke, and in the wake of the '81-'82 recession, I couldn't find a paying job as a lawyer. Our daughter was one year old. We sold our late model pick up truck, and replaced it with a 1971 Volkswagen, and Baby Blue.

I struggled with a solo practice, while working nights as an instructor at a truck driving school, while my wife got a commission sales job. She pleaded for a car with A/C (issue with migraine headaches), so we spent $1800 on a '75 Valiant that filled the bill. That just about cleaned out the piggy bank. I soon threw in the towel, closed the practice and went back to driving a tractor trailer to make rent. Any normal person would have sold the GTX at this point, but I wouldn't.

Diane, justifiably, resented the car. I worked like a dog to keep it, and rode the wave as the small trucking company I drove for became the largest dry bulk carrier in North America. Baby Blue (a no option car) was traded off for a survivor GTX with working factory A/C, power steering, and brakes as I climbed the corporate ladder, on my way to General Counsel.

Fast forward 20 years, the corporate career is a decade in the past, and I get a call from Bob Miller (who has been a friend since he sold me the car in '83.) Informs me the current owner of our old car has it for sale, am I interested? Talk about a second chance - Yes, I'm interested, and 30 years after we first met, Bob and I drive Baby Blue back from Tennessee together. New memories the second time around, and good ones.

So, after discussing all the posts on this site, my ever suffering spouse pondered the issues, and said keep the darn thing, but buy the Hemi, you earned it. Hemi GTX in question was posted by a member on this site, talked to him last night, it has my name written all over it, wife agrees. A new chapter begins. Thanks again, all of you.

68BabyBlue said:

Old memories vs. new ones - even more fertile territory for discussion than Hemi vs. 440. My memories from my first relationship with Baby Blue are rough, one of the worst periods of my life. After selling my first GTX to pay for law school tuition in 1981, my wife and I sold our house when I graduated. We were totally broke, and in the wake of the '81-'82 recession, I couldn't find a paying job as a lawyer. Our daughter was one year old. We sold our late model pick up truck, and replaced it with a 1971 Volkswagen, and Baby Blue.

I struggled with a solo practice, while working nights as an instructor at a truck driving school, while my wife got a commission sales job. She pleaded for a car with A/C (issue with migraine headaches), so we spent $1800 on a '75 Valiant that filled the bill. That just about cleaned out the piggy bank. I soon threw in the towel, closed the practice and went back to driving a tractor trailer to make rent. Any normal person would have sold the GTX at this point, but I wouldn't.

Diane, justifiably, resented the car. I worked like a dog to keep it, and rode the wave when the small trucking company I drove for became the largest dry bulk carrier in North America. Baby Blue (a no option car) was traded off for a survivor GTX with working factory A/C, power steering, and brakes as I climbed the corporate ladder, on my way to General Counsel.

Fast forward 20 years, the corporate career is a decade in the past, and I get a call from Bob Miller (who has been a friend since he sold me the car in '83.) Informs me the current owner of our old car has it for sale, am I interested? Talk about a second chance - Yes, I'm interested, and 30 years after we first met, Bob and I drive Baby Blue back from Tennessee together. New memories the second time around, and good ones.

So, after discussing all the posts on this site, my ever suffering spouse pondered the issues, and said keep the darn thing, but buy the Hemi, you earned it. Hemi GTX in question was posted by a member on this site, talked to him last night, it has my name written all over it, wife agrees. A new chapter begins. Thanks again, all of you.

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Yeah, I think Baby Blue has earned a permanent spot in the stable. Good move to simply add the Hemi!

Enjoy and good luck!

myk r sanchez said:

Hemi for the bragging rights, period. As its been stated already, mechanically the Hemi isn't much more of an advantage...

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B.S. , SOUP BOTH OF THEM UP ,AND SEE WHICH IS FASTER , I HAVE HAD 2 HEMI`S , 1 440 , AND 1 440/505 WEDGE , THE HEMI WOULD RUN OFF AND HIDE FROM THE WEDGES .

not so famous bob said:

B.S. , SOUP BOTH OF THEM UP ,AND SEE WHICH IS FASTER , I HAVE HAD 2 HEMI`S , 1 440 , AND 1 440/505 WEDGE , THE HEMI WOULD RUN OFF AND HIDE FROM THE WEDGES .

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That sure depends on the tune up!

tHE TORQUE OF THE S

Runcharger said:

"The Hemi turns on when the others turn off" I think Don White was quoted saying that in the Scat Pack advertising for 1970 and it's true. If you aren't topending the competition, then your Hemi has something wrong with it. I understand the Boss 429 breathed like that as well although I doubt it with the standard single 4 barrel.
Honestly in street racing other cars could be competitive if you didn't run the full quarter. When you get into high gear is when a Hemi settles in and gets it all together, it feels like there is no end to it.

View attachment 1060494

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STREET HEMI I HAD WOULD LEAVE AND BE IN FRONT OF MOST EVERYTHING , if YOU DIDNT GET ON IT TOO HARD RIGHT OFF THE BAT .

i USE TO BE ABLE TO TELL A

Darter6 said:

Amen to that.

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I used to be able to tell a hemi from a block away , but they had very small cams in the street hemi`s , only around 495 lift .
still were refactered by the nhra to about 525 h.p. !