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440 Rebuild

The standard Fel Pro valley pan works well with the RPM heads since they have no heat crossover. If you use the paper Fel Pro gaskets, be sure to use the thin ones. The thick one cause fitment problems. I had oil leakage problems with the Source plate I tried. Went back to the old Fel Pro, no leakage.
 
Talked to the machinist today and he was getting ready to grind the crank, so progress is being made.

I got the gasket sets ordered today. I talked to the Edelbrock guy I have talked to a couple of times and he had not seen the Fel Pro 1215 before and said he normally just puts the valley pan up against the heads with a little black RTV.

I can’t wait to see the block all machined and cleaned up.
 
Talked to the machinist today and he was getting ready to grind the crank, so progress is being made.

I got the gasket sets ordered today. I talked to the Edelbrock guy I have talked to a couple of times and he had not seen the Fel Pro 1215 before and said he normally just puts the valley pan up against the heads with a little black RTV.

I can’t wait to see the block all machined and cleaned up.


Did you happen to mention to your Machinist the concept of grinding the Crank to LOWSIDE ... or the SMALL side of the Tolerance ?
In my experience, that is one of the hardest things to get a Farm Implement/NAPA store style Machine Shop Crank grinder guy to comprehend..... they just don't 'get it'.....
hopefully, your guys have some HP/Engine Blueprinting experience ? Because that "one" simple step in Grinding the Crank to Lowside can save a LOT of headaches later on.
 
Did you happen to mention to your Machinist the concept of grinding the Crank to LOWSIDE ... or the SMALL side of the Tolerance ?
In my experience, that is one of the hardest things to get a Farm Implement/NAPA store style Machine Shop Crank grinder guy to comprehend..... they just don't 'get it'.....
hopefully, your guys have some HP/Engine Blueprinting experience ? Because that "one" simple step in Grinding the Crank to Lowside can save a LOT of headaches later on.

Yes, made sure to tell him. I think it sounded like he will have to fit it. I am interpreting that as he will check clearances once I have the bearings to him and he may have to polish to get the clearance correct. I am sure with the number of different bearings in the marketplace, they are all over the board. Sounds like the ones you recommended are just a little looser, so maybe everything will be perfectly clearances.

Will have to ask him again when I drop off the parts.
 
Well, got the piston rings and main bearings today. Pistons will probably be here next week.

I keep forgetting to ask about the harmonic balancer. It has a small piece broken off of it. How big of a piece needs to be missing before it causes a vibration? The missing piece is on the inner part and is maybe 1/4 inch by 1 inch. Was hoping to be able to reuse, but if it is no good, then I will have to get one.
 
I don't think I would run the damper. 440 source has decent prices on there dampers.
Also for the rpm intake this tray looks decent.
http://store.440source.com/Sheet-Metal-Valley-Pan-RB-Engine-Dual-Plane/productinfo/127-1010/

Screenshot_20220209-211903_Chrome.jpg
 
I would not run that, as far as vibration I just assumed you would balance this engine.
 
Husker, make sure the machinist understands "low limit", which is the low side of the factory dimension. He needs to use the micrometer to measure each journal at several points around each journal. I never considered "polishing" the bearings for clearance. That would remove that outer layer of bearing material. Just me.
Get a new damper.
As I said, the Source tray I tried leaked, guess I didn't have the patience to spend a lot of time figuring it out, put on a standard Fel Pro metal tray and no leaks. Just my experience.
 
Husker, make sure the machinist understands "low limit", which is the low side of the factory dimension. He needs to use the micrometer to measure each journal at several points around each journal. I never considered "polishing" the bearings for clearance. That would remove that outer layer of bearing material. Just me.
Get a new damper.
As I said, the Source tray I tried leaked, guess I didn't have the patience to spend a lot of time figuring it out, put on a standard Fel Pro metal tray and no leaks. Just my experience.
I'd agree nothing wrong w the stock tray. I've had good luck even reusing then..w a healthy coat of silicone.
I think (or would hope) they are talking polishing the crank to gain a little extra clearance.
 
I'd agree nothing wrong w the stock tray. I've had good luck even reusing then..w a healthy coat of silicone.
I think (or would hope) they are talking polishing the crank to gain a little extra clearance.

Hope I mis read that. I agree polishing the crank is the normal approach.
 
But polishing the crank too much leads to an uneven surface my crank grinders always said, that is why they like to know first. Either way will work, but shooting for middle or lower to start is best.
 
But polishing the crank too much leads to an uneven surface my crank grinders always said, that is why they like to know first. Either way will work, but shooting for middle or lower to start is best.

Yes I agree, getting the crank ground to the desired size is what I would hope for. The local crank grinder here that does most all the HP stuff has always been really good at getting the size correct.
 
I pretty much read verbatim what Challenger340 had posted. He had not ground the crank at that point. Told him the exact tolerances I was looking for, per the previous posts.

If he did not get it found quite far enough, then he can always go a little further.

Unfortunately, I do don’t have any gearheads in my friend circle, so nobody to bounce ideas off of or to ask about good machine shops. Even within a machine shop you may have good and not so good results. Close to where I grew up, we had Swanson Automotive and Dale was very highly regarded. Was a Chevy guy, but very bright. That was lots of years ago and he has long since passed. Don’t know anything about the business anymore, so have to rely on good feedback from others and my own comfort level to find someone that knows what they are doing and they do a meticulous job.

Hopefully the guy I am using does an outstanding job. He is, as someone else said, working on tractors one day and cars on another day. I actually did see a crank out of a Farmall M when I dropped my block off.

So, what if he installs the mains and mics the inside of the bearings and the size of the main journal? What specific measurement am I looking for? So, CuriousYellow said .0030 to .0035. Challenger said .0030. When we talked about main bearings, someone liked the Speed Pro 119M, because they gave about .0005 more clearance. Do I want .0030 and with these bearings will have .0035 clearance? Or mic everything out and .0030 is exactly what I want? Is .0025 clearance on the rods the exact clearance I want? Just want to make sure when I talk to the machinist, I can tell him exactly what I want to see.

Still waiting on the rod bearings and pistons, so most likely won’t be seeing him for another week or 10 days.

I appreciate all the feedback and am trying to pick it all up. I know I sound a lot smarter every time I talk to the machinist.
 
i trust whats real with my eyes and be it interesting very little on the internet with out verification
 
I pretty much read verbatim what Challenger340 had posted. He had not ground the crank at that point. Told him the exact tolerances I was looking for, per the previous posts.

If he did not get it found quite far enough, then he can always go a little further.

Unfortunately, I do don’t have any gearheads in my friend circle, so nobody to bounce ideas off of or to ask about good machine shops. Even within a machine shop you may have good and not so good results. Close to where I grew up, we had Swanson Automotive and Dale was very highly regarded. Was a Chevy guy, but very bright. That was lots of years ago and he has long since passed. Don’t know anything about the business anymore, so have to rely on good feedback from others and my own comfort level to find someone that knows what they are doing and they do a meticulous job.

Hopefully the guy I am using does an outstanding job. He is, as someone else said, working on tractors one day and cars on another day. I actually did see a crank out of a Farmall M when I dropped my block off.

So, what if he installs the mains and mics the inside of the bearings and the size of the main journal? What specific measurement am I looking for? So, CuriousYellow said .0030 to .0035. Challenger said .0030. When we talked about main bearings, someone liked the Speed Pro 119M, because they gave about .0005 more clearance. Do I want .0030 and with these bearings will have .0035 clearance? Or mic everything out and .0030 is exactly what I want? Is .0025 clearance on the rods the exact clearance I want? Just want to make sure when I talk to the machinist, I can tell him exactly what I want to see.

Still waiting on the rod bearings and pistons, so most likely won’t be seeing him for another week or 10 days.


I appreciate all the feedback and am trying to pick it all up. I know I sound a lot smarter every time I talk to the machinist.
I would claify...On the mains I would consider .003 ideal. But .0035 has worked fine. Could not tell the difference.
Ideal on rods .0025.
I think the point probably is some shops are happy if its .0015 and send it out the door(because it works on a 350 sbc). Bb mopar you could get by w .002 on the rods, but its getting machined and they should be able to get it spot on.
Usually the bearing w extra clearance get used when you have to make what you have work. Not really the case here, since it's being machined.
 
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It will be interesting to see what the numbers are. I am sure it is not his first rodeo, but it is always hard to tell how detailed a person is until you see their work.

The gasket sets came today and was surprised that the pistons showed up as well. I am waiting on the rod bearings and need to get a balancer ordered.

I am doing some rethinking on having him assemble the short block. My middle son is 17 and this might be the only opportunity we get to work on something like this together. I have a little time to figure that out.
 
I would not have an inexperienced person assemble your motor. I learned by having my very experienced speed shop owner and assembler show me step by step how to do it correctly. That guy was so meticulous it still amazes me. He had different vendors for all the actual machine operations that he had total confidence in. Then he triple checked their work.
 
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