For those with kids learning to drive

[j-c-c-62]

This email I got today from my 32-year-old son living in San Diego

"Tonight I was sitting at a light exiting the highway to make a left. I was in the outer left lane, no cars in the inner left lane. As I hit the apex to turn left a BMW at the light going straight on the road I was turning on blew through the light. I turned HARD left to avoid the collision. Luckily no one was in the inner turn lane giving me space.

The BMW did stop but undoubtedly would have t boned me if I didn’t take action. I actually had to check my car when I got home because I could not believe we didn’t connect.

I realized I didn’t have a second to think and acted on pure instinct to avoid this. Thanks again for putting me in the skip barber school, it truly taught me life saving skills. Benny was riding passenger, so he thanks you too.

- Case"

I took him to driving school a few times at Sebring when he was 16.
I'd say my money was well spent.
Benny is his dog.

 

[YY1]

All too common today.

In most states yellow is "clearance for car already in intersection".

NOT- speed up so you are in the intersection when the light turns red.


Riding a motorcycle conditions you to think "worst case scenario" and find multiple "paths of least potential damage" constantly.

Kind of takes a lot of the fun out of riding or driving.

 

[davek]

Yep had my grandson take driving lessons,glad your good and Benny.

 

[davek]

I will never ride a bike because of that reason, no one looks out for motorcycles.

 

[YY1]

That's why you have to look out double (or more) for yourself.....and all the other drivers.

 

[HawkRod]

This email I got today from my 32-year-old son living in San Diego

"Tonight I was sitting at a light exiting the highway to make a left. I was in the outer left lane, no cars in the inner left lane. As I hit the apex to turn left a BMW at the light going straight on the road I was turning on blew through the light. I turned HARD left to avoid the collision. Luckily no one was in the inner turn lane giving me space.

The BMW did stop but undoubtedly would have t boned me if I didn’t take action. I actually had to check my car when I got home because I could not believe we didn’t connect.

I realized I didn’t have a second to think and acted on pure instinct to avoid this. Thanks again for putting me in the skip barber school, it truly taught me life saving skills. Benny was riding passenger, so he thanks you too.

- Case"

I took him to driving school a few times at Sebring when he was 16.
I'd say my money was well spent.
Benny is his dog.

Many bad things happen today on the roads due to distracted driving and cell phones.

Having parents teach their kids how to drive is a joke, since many parents don't have a clue how to properly drive anyway. I truly believe we need to have a driver's test like they do in England. They put drivers through the ringer, for weeks, with a professional instructor that learns what an individual driver's strengths and weaknesses are. I'm not sure that would do too much to reduce distracted driving, but maybe they can (and have) added things to help combat that.

Regardless, it can be dangerous out there, so defensive driving and good driver skills are imperative. Good on you for spending the time to teach him, as well as taking him to driving school. I did the same with my son and he also benefitted from it.

 

[f569]

I will never ride a bike because of that reason, no one looks out for motorcycles.

Particularly (but not exclusively) younger drivers with little to no real world experience who haven't lost their feeling of immortality, totally insulated in modern high HP vehicles. It is why mine stays in the garage most if the time.

That's why you have to look out double (or more) for yourself.....and all the other drivers.

You can be as vigilant as possible, take any and every motorcycle safety course available (I have) and be the most experienced cyclist on the planet ...... you are no match for a 4000 lb vehicle approaching you from behind at twice your speed. These "criminals" race on the parkways of NYC, weaving in and out of traffic with barely inches to spare. I have not personally seen the accidents occur but have passed at least 6 fatal crash scenes in the last 10 years, the latest one being an off duty NYC police officer on his way to work. I could barely see his bike, it was UNDER the car. There is no way to react to something you don't even see coming.

Not sure how congested Florida roads are these days but its nuts up here. If I do ride I head east towards Montauk but even that is happening less often. I never thought I would feel this way as there is just something about being in the wind. I don't want to admit, it just might be time to sell the old girl.

 

[Detective D]

Removing driver's ed from schools was the beginning of this.

 

[68BabyBlue]

Many bad things happen today on the roads due to distracted driving and cell phones.

Having parents teach their kids how to drive is a joke, since many parents don't have a clue how to properly drive anyway. I truly believe we need to have a driver's test like they do in England. They put drivers through the ringer, for weeks, with a professional instructor that learns what an individual driver's strengths and weaknesses are. I'm not sure that would do too much to reduce distracted driving, but maybe they can (and have) added things to help combat that.

Regardless, it can be dangerous out there, so defensive driving and good driver skills are imperative. Good on you for spending the time to teach him, as well as taking him to driving school. I did the same with my son and he also benefitted from it.

Quote from my daughter 25 years ago - "I'm a really good driver when I'm paying attention." The problem was that she did not do so a significant part of the time. After her fourth wreck, which destroyed her car, I took away her keys, and she started riding the bus.

This was especially upsetting to me, because during this period of my life, I was still working in safety management for a major truck line. I worked with 900 truck drivers, huge stake in trying to minimize losses. I approached the problem from two directions. Everyone got training in spotting hazards before they produced a collision, basic defensive driving that has been around since I took driver education in 1969. The programs are still around today, because they work. And they have become even more critical in the current era of cell phones and distracted driving.

On the other end of the spectrum, I sent my seasoned old timers through hands on skills training at Eaton Corporation's proving grounds, on a course set up to simulate slick roads. Students drove tractor trailers to the point of traction loss, the rigs had safety chains to prevent metal contact if a student reached a jack knife. Similar approach to the high performance driving courses for cars.

My daughter was exposed to all this stuff. In her case, the cliche "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" really applied. Luckily for everyone in her life, her training finally sunk in when she was in her 30s.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Removing driver's ed from schools was the beginning of this.

In the 60's from my recollection, HS driving classes were for kids that had no clue how to drive (many still don't it appaers), or got any prior instruction/examples from their parents. I knew how to drive and was driving, not on public roads, before I was 14. Go karting on dirt taught car control rather well, ought to be mandatory IMO.

 

[68BabyBlue]

In the 60's from my recollection, HS driving classes were for kids that had no clue how to drive (many still don't it appaers), or got any prior instruction/examples from their parents. I knew how to drive and was driving, not on public roads, before I was 14. Go karting on dirt taught car control rather well, ought to be mandatory IMO.

I also learned to drive at 14, off public roads. I took driver education for two reasons - my parents got a significant reduction of their insurance premium, and PA had a graduated license system which enabled kids who completed driver's ed the option to obtain an unrestricted license at age 17, if they were violation free for a year. Others had to wait until 18 to drive after midnight.

Driver's education at State College High was more comprehensive than most schools at the time. Amos Neyhart, considered the father of driver's educaton, was a professor at Penn State. One of his proteges set up the course I enrolled in, and he was my instructor the year before he retired.

 

[j-c-c-62]

I also learned to drive at 14, off public roads. I took driver education for two reasons - my parents got a significant reduction of their insurance premium, and PA had a graduated license system which enabled kids who completed driver's ed the option to obtain an unrestricted license at age 17, if they were violation free for a year. Others had to wait until 18 to drive after midnight.

Driver's education at State College High was more comprehensive than most schools at the time. Amos Neyhart, considered the father of driver's educaton, was a professor at Penn State. One of his proteges set up the course I enrolled in, and he was my instructor the year before he retired.

75%? of good driving is being able to understand before hand what another driver is going or needing to do. And not reacting negatively or aggressively when they do it. That is an empathetic attribute. It's called putting yourself in another's shoes. That is a rather rare quality today on the road. Driving courtesy has become a war of "you can't get in front of me a hole".
That mindset is likely taught at a young age way before any driving schools are offered, and few driving schools can overcome that mindset, but they can teach Parallel parking, use your blinkers, and don't tailgate, low hanging rare fruit today.

And I am of a much different era, I had a restricted license at 14, had a restricted Chauffer's license before I was 18 by answering 5 questions on a driver's written test, that became an unrestricted Chauffer's license the day I turned 18, when I could legally drive an 80,000lb fuel tanker if I was so inclined.

 

[dadsbee]

Start'm young and half the problems would go away...

Teach them to spend more time watching their mirrors, than the road, and things will go a lot better over time.

 

[j-c-c-62]

I taught my kids mirrors give you constant "situational awareness", whereas in an emergency arises like in this opening post, a good driver already knows what lanes are open to avoid an accident.

I always chuckle when a faster driver polls up behind, when I am in the right lane, doing the speed limit, and after a moment of following me, I see them in my mirror look over and check their mirror on an empty 4 lane highway, and THEN decide to change lanes and pass me.
Are they really that out of touch?

 

[HawkRod]

I taught my kids mirrors give you constant "situational awareness", whereas in an emergency arises like in this opening post, a good driver already knows what lanes are open to avoid an accident.

I always chuckle when a faster driver polls up behind, when I am in the right lane, doing the speed limit, and after a moment of following me, I see them in my mirror look over and check their mirror on an empty 4 lane highway, and THEN decide to change lanes and pass me.
Are they really that out of touch?

I totally agree one should have situational awareness.

Having said that, my dad beat into my head that I should NEVER change lanes without looking over my shoulder. It is an extra step that has been burned into my muscle memory (and quite honestly, has saved my butt a couple of times when I screwed up and thought it was clear when it wasn't).

Now if it were me coming up on you, I would have changed lanes way before I got close enough to follow you (so I wouldn't crowd you), but I would have checked over my shoulder even if I KNEW there was no one there - just force of habit. Also, once I passed you, I wouldn't change lanes back to yours once there is a half inch between us! I see many drivers do this and it irritates me. Again, no reason to crowd anyone when there is enough room on the road!

 

[Detective D]

In the 60's from my recollection, HS driving classes were for kids that had no clue how to drive (many still don't it appaers), or got any prior instruction/examples from their parents. I knew how to drive and was driving, not on public roads, before I was 14. Go karting on dirt taught car control rather well, ought to be mandatory IMO.

In WI, my older brother and sister got driver's ed in high school. It was mandatory for every student. It also had a deicated car the school owned, and the instructor was certified to do the written test portion of the drivers exam. Certain students may have gotten more behind the wheel time then others, because the ones that needed it could sign up a couple different times of the day for their study hall to get more time in.
By the time I got there, that program was gone. My parents put me in a driving school. I did not need a driving school, I grew up farming. However, it was excellent for insurance and the drivers school in our tiny town cost $5 more then the written test at WI DMV and the school could give me the test and the state waived the fee for a temp learner's license. So it made financial sense.
If I had not wanted to drive until I was 18, I could have walked into the DMV and just taken the test. My son did this. Mostly because I could not afford a car for him when he was 16 and taught him to drive in my giant truck. To be more specific, I could not afford to add him to one of my car's insurance policies. Not sure in other states, but anyone with a valid license in WI in the household must be declared primary driver on a vehicle in said household, even if they do not own any. So no "intermittent, add him to my car" he would have been assigned as primary for even a clunker and liability is pushing $150+ now a month for that age range in this state.
I did later buy him an old Impala for 2200 bucks. His 18th birthday saw his liability drop to $90/month. Plus he had a job so he could pay for it.

Like most of tech ed, shop classes, etc. the life skills portion of public education has been destroyed in favor of more "social studies" and nicely-named mental programming for our kids. But that is a topic for a different thread.

 

[Detective D]

I totally agree one should have situational awareness.

Having said that, my dad beat into my head that I should NEVER change lanes without looking over my shoulder. It is an extra step that has been burned into my muscle memory (and quite honestly, has saved my butt a couple of times when I screwed up and thought it was clear when it wasn't).

Now if it were me coming up on you, I would have changed lanes way before I got close enough to follow you (so I wouldn't crowd you), but I would have checked over my shoulder even if I KNEW there was no one there - just force of habit. Also, once I passed you, I wouldn't change lanes back to yours once there is a half inch between us! I see many drivers do this and it irritates me. Again, no reason to crowd anyone when there is enough room on the road!

I agree with this.
Also because depending on what road in WI you are on, you may come up on someone doing 5mph faster then them and in the time you approached and got ready to move over some illegal in a honda minivan may have shot up doing 30mph faster then you in the other lane.

 

[j-c-c-62]

"I would have changed lanes way before I got close enough to follow you" yes, that was the main point.

However, the looking over the shoulder I strongly disagree with, and I cringe when I see a nearby driver turn around in traffic at speed:
1. It takes your eyes off the road, and during that second?, you have traveled effectively blind at 60 mph nearly 66 ft
2. It tells me a driver does not have confidence of their current situational awareness by likely not giving adequate attention to their mirrors.
3. It tells me they may not have their mirrors properly adjusted
4. It might also tell me the driver does not have confidence of what is visible in the reflected mirrors, or cannot process what they are seeing.
5, When you are driving a big rig, looking over your shoulder is mostly rather useless
6. Not that this applies well here, but you seldom see race drivers turn there heads in competition at speed

This is shared in all due respect to your dad, I had one too. Mine was big on a driver knowing exactly what space the driven car occupied on the road, as the difference between a close call and an accident could be less than an inch. He would place a dime on the vacant road, and tell me to stop on it. The "game" my family played when going out to dinner was how straight and even you could park in a spot without backing up,

 

[YY1]

It's a lot to process-

What's the worst thing that car could possibly do, and what will I do if they do that.

...and that car...and that car...and that car...

 

[j-c-c-62]

It's a lot to process-

What's the worst thing that car could possibly do, and what will I do if they do that.

...and that car...and that car...and that car...

That is the wrong algorithm IMO, first calculation is what does the situation in front of you indicate is the most likely thing the other drivers want to do, and process from there.
It's why they say driving is a fulltime experience, and one must pay attention.