Going to give the Evan's HP coolant a try

[bigmanjbmopar]

I used 3 gallons of prep after draining the radiator, problem is if you don't drain your block and get rid of the other 2-3 gallons of mix you are screwed until you keep flushing with new product. I t can be done, ran the motor, drained it replaced with new twice before finally getting to the 1% mark.

So the real proper way from this lesson learned is to drain the block as well as everything else and make sure you get 6 gallons or whatever you system total capacity is, in a 440 its 6 with a 26" 3 row radiator. I was 3 gallons short on the first round and didn't drain my block. lessoned learned.

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

So, another update to this story, Today 93° day, to her out and got some good cruise time in temps stayed at 180-85 for the most part, a couple of times it ran up to 200. As soon as it was in cruise mode again it dropped back to 180. All in all now that I have to 0% water content I say this stuff works well. next test is to do a longer haul on a hotter day, we will get into the triple digits soon and as much as it will suck for me driving in those temps, it for the science of it all If you were to ask me if Evan's Waterless Collant is worth it I would say yes for sure it is.

https://youtu.be/M_8ule03d2s

 

[Car Nut]

Thanks for the update, still no stat?

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

No Stat, Also as a reminder to anyone who may find this later, the waterless coolant works best when you have aluminum parts like radiator and heads etc, if you're an all stock application don't use it.

In my application, I have aluminum radiator, heads, water pump housing, pump, stat water neck, coil spring in the lower hose. A real good $5 investment even if you use all stock parts. Just a side note. My car was an A/C car originally and I had wanted to replace that one day so when I built the motor I got the pump housing with the inlet on the passenger side, that makes for a real short 45° bend hose which has the potential of collapse.

When I built the motor I had checked all the passages and saw the outer cylinder walls and knew how much iron flake was there, not much at all, after a couple of thousands miles using regular coolant mix, the system would only overheat when in stop and go traffic for than 30 minutes. However more importantly for me was the pressure issue, I had a freeze plug literally blow out due to a back pressure issue on full throttle likely due to the lower hose collapsing and the steam in the water causing pressure.

Would a spring in the lower hose fix that? partially, but there would still be pressure which unless your stock you don't want even with a 7-16 lbs radiator cap and after 3 months antifreeze stops protecting our iron from rust. I would see flakes of iron in the fluid when changing it that just told me that my cylinder walls were getting just that much thinner, I want to make this motor last as long as possible my son is still young and I want him to be able to drive this car without having to worry about it failing before he can get some miles on it.

I think I could improve even more with a better radiator, one with larger tubes, a 2 row with 1" tubes I think would be better than a 3 row of 3/4" tubes just because of the better flow of the larger tubes.

Also one last thing, originally I had reported during winter months the temps stayed real low and the heater stayed cold for awhile, that has changed now as soon as the car gets to temp the heater blows warm air. Also originally I still had a over 3% of water content still so I think that was causing some issues. but now everything is good. The refractometer is a must to truly get to where you need to be and to monitor the results.

 

[Warhorse]

It'll be interesting to see how the Warhorse (aka my '68 Charger) will stay cool with Evans HP. I mentioned earlier that I converted to Evans from the temporary distilled H2O that my builder delivered the car with. Of course I used the Evans Prep Fluid after draining the water; but I drained from the radiator cock only, figuring that is the lowest point. My question: how do you drain the block? Note that i've only taken her out for two around the block shakedown flights where I got the engine up to temp and it seemed to stableize just under 200F. One other thing to note is that this car originally had a small block so I have a 22" aluminum radiator built by Griffin specifically with that in mind. Griffin assured me it'll handle 600+ horse power. I would have had to performed surgery or replace the radiator yoke sheet metal to achieve the 26" found on big block cars.

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

There are drain plugs on the sides of the block.

 

[Warhorse]

Where's a good place to buy a refractometer? I see there's a few on Amazon, any recommendations?

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

I got mine on ebay but call Evans and ask them they told me if I had I could have gotten a better deal.

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

Well today is the triple digit day and I sucked it up and went for a test run, 108° day today at 6 pm

Car was in the garage away from the direct sun and heat, so it was a lot cooler than at the end.

Started up and in 5 minutes it was at 150° normal warm up temp which usually takes a couple of minutes longer air is thick once the garage door went up.

Set out at 155-160° got about 2 miles away hitting all the lights the whole way and she climbed up to 180° less than 10 minutes driving.

Got to the 2 lane farm roads near me and was able to get a little more wind in the sails while she jumped up to 190°

Hit more stop signs and she jumped to 195-200° less than 20 minutes into the drive. seems she would stay there if I could keep 48-50 mph in the sails.

Got some open 2 lane road and 65 mph and she dropped back to 185-190° and stayed there until I hit a series of stop signs and stop lights.

After the first stop sign she got up to 210-215° fast and stayed there between stop signs and red lights.

Red light to red light less than 1/2 mile she climbed to 220° couldn't get her past 45-50 now on the city streets with traffic.

Almost home 2nd to last light and I saw 225° for a second then she dropped down to 215° and stayed there turning on my street doing 25 mph for the last 1/2 mile she jumped back up to 225-230° last stop sign and got on it and dropped it to 215 again.

pulled in the garage and she hit 230° after I shut her off. Pusher fan was on by this time, popped the hood to let her cool off faster. Could start to smell gas vapor from the vents, and could tell she was a hot girl

Remind me to never do that again, no A/C but needed to take one for science! dam that was a hot *** ride!

So bottom line is I think the Evan's held up, even at 215-225° I didn't feel much lag on the motor like I had felt in the past when it was a 50/50 mix. it wasn't until the very last second pulling into the garage did I start to notice she was super hot and wanted to be turned off. at least I wanted to shut her down real bad. not that my car has feelings! lol

However there was no pressure so no venting from the cap, didn't see any overflow in the side reservoir so no boil over / out. I don't think I will be cruising around in this kind of temps again but If I had to I think as long as I could get some wind in the sail she would do well enough to get me to where I was going.

I was expecting a better result honestly, I thought it would stay at 210° and not hang at 215-220° there as long as it seemed to. Maybe because I couldn't get her on the freeway but I do a lot of cruising on the streets so this was a more real world test anyway.

What would've happened had I let her go up in temps just to see? Don't know and not going to try so don't ask! Could only imagine she would go to 230-250° but would she run and not bog out? I don't think she would have, not only did I not see any signs of pressure but no seemingly overflow at all, so other than all the metals being really really hot the coolant was intact and did it's job.

One thing I wish I had done but did not, was throw it in neutral at a light or stop sign to see if the increased fan speed from the 18" flex fan would have helped any?

Went out to check her while writing this, 10-15 minutes and the temps on the mech gauge had dropped from 230 to 185° thinking electric pusher was doing a good job and with the hood up and a cooler garage helped, Mr Gasket radiator cap said 230 at the top of the rad. which is in the yellow zone not red, 240 starts red zone on that cap. double checked the overflow and nothing.

Thoughts?

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

So I decided to give a new radiator a try with dual electric fans pulling around 3000 cfm. According to the Evan's instructions depending on the horsepower (doesn't say at the crank or wheels) a 2 row of 1" to 1-1/4" aluminum radiator is recommended along with a pump like the one I have. The instructions do not mention a fan but seeing how I would like to free up a couple of HP's I am ditching the flex fan for now. My currently aluminum radiator is a 26" SB 3 row of 3/4" tubes. I can feel the cool air through it from the pusher but only in a 14" pattern even though the shroud on the other side is ducting that air it's just not ducting it through the fins around the pusher.

New radiator will be a 2 row 1" tubes with flared out openings for better flow rates, better air through the fins and and with dual fans pulling air through it with a shroud it should cool all the coolant in the tubes not just the center sections.

I am not having a overheating problem so this makes for the best time to experiment with this. I was able to get the coolant water content down to 1% or 0% which is the best you can get.

The 440source pump is just like the recommended pump from Evan's so should be good there. I am disappointed that I can't run around on triple digit days staying at 180-195 but hey cant seem to win the lotto either!

Will report back once the new set up is in and can get some testing time in.

It will be nice to get rid of the pusher fan. I know it does help, recently I adjusted the run temp to around 160° just to see what would happen, she was still showing 195-210° on a 75° day in light to light traffic after a short cruise. Adjusting the fan to come on sooner did help was able to keep the temps to 200°

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

Update: Changed radiators to the 26" SB 2 row 1" tubes twin 12" electric puller fans. One of the fans seems to be a bit less than the other still looking at it maybe too hot on the first trial run. Need more time out to see but for the most part it stayed at 180° for a cruise with light to light traffic, did see it go to 210 after it was parked but not any higher and cooled pretty fast.

 

[GetX'd]

I really learned a lot from this thread. Thx for all the postings.

 

[multimopes]

Thank you for the excellent thread. I am considering using Evans in my 440. I anxiously await the results from the last upgrade. I do have a couple questions though. You say you have a 440source water pump; is that the pulley made for it? I spoke with them and they told me that their pulley is an underdriven type; (flows less?) as it's made for race type applications; high revs. Second, I read somewhere years ago that running without a stat can actually cause an engine to run warmer as coolant flows through the radiator too fast to release all the heat. I might be suffering from senility, but that's what I recall. I intend to purchase and install the 440source pump but with my stock pulley so I move as much coolant as possible. In my case I have no heater box in the car so now would be the best time to flush it out and do the Evans thing. I have a 26" crossflow aluminum radiator with twin 10" puller fans, approx 2600 cfm total, not sure how many rows of tubes. I am trying to sell my house and move to Florida and I want to be able to drive my baby regardless of how hot it is down there. I noted that there is approx. 3.75 inches of unused space side to side between the frame rails and radiator ends of my 73 RR clone so I am also considering a larger radiator although the opening through the radiator support is approx. 26 and 3/4". I have a Derale dual fan controller but I spliced in manual overrides to head off the heat before it gets out of hand. I also spliced in a separate run light for each fan as I can't hear them running with the engine on with the headers and cherry bombs singing. Eventually I would like to put an A/C box back in it. I would also like to get a cool-view visable stat housing so I can see the coolant flow. If the Evans coolant doesn't do the job completely, I thought maybe an oil cooler might help. What do you think? I am still riveted to my seat hoping that your last upgrade works out well. Thanks again!

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

Drove to a car show last Saturday and she got p to 200 while up and down some hills on a two lane road then cooled down to 185-190.

overall the whole trip went well, as the fans cooled her down much faster than anything I have had on it before, in less than 10 minutes with the fan relay set at 150° and the temps at 215 after parking her, she cooled right off.

I waited to see how long it would take and the fans cut off after only 10 min. looked at the mech gauge and it read 160°. The temps outside were in the high 80's to low 90's. I will try to do another 110°+ degree day run but that sucked and honestly I don't take my un air conditioned hotrod out in those temps even when running antifreeze / water lmao! Just trying to get a full range of testing in, since I started this whole thing in winter it needed to be tested in summer.

Ok to try to answer some of your questions lol and I am not the expert so all I can do is give you experience info. Call Evan's for their tech help they are actually pretty nice guys.

"You say you have a 440source water pump; is that the pulley made for it? " Yes I have the 440 pump and thier pulley with a spacer behind it otherwise it hits the bolts on the housing. using a round spacer from summit.

http://store.440source.com/Billet-A...mp-Pulley-Single-Groove/productinfo/200-1105/

"spoke with them and they told me that their pulley is an underdriven type; (flows less?) as it's made for race type applications; high revs" Um ok? there is nothing in the description about that but ok. has it made a difference compared to a stock pulley? I couldn't tell you as I could not see any difference but it is possible it is the case. I can see the coolant flowing while its idling and reving.

"Second, I read somewhere years ago that running without a stat can actually cause an engine to run warmer as coolant flows through the radiator too fast to release all the heat." The Evan's coolant is a slippery viscous fluid like vegetable oil almost so its thickness keeps it flowing pretty constantly even blazing hot it is still slippery. It's chemical compounds are what pulls the heat away from the engine and sends it to the radiator for cooling, does it seem warmer than with a stat? No it ran hotter with the stat installed and seemed more restricted it was Evan's recommendation to run without it. it definitely improved the cooling aspects without a stat, in winter it does take an extra couple minutes for the heat in the heater to blow hot. but not anything to complain about. with the stat installed it would take up to 15 min was weird.


"What do you think?" lol well I think you will be fine, stock pulley or 440s pulley, I got mine for looks mainly. wanted bilet not chrome.

For the size of your tubes and number of rows you can check the size of the tubes visually from the top, open the cap and look in take a tape measure and eyeball, most are 3/4 3 rows, my new rad is 1" 2 row.

If you think about it a 2 row radiator with the cooling fins in between the rows and the thickness of that set up vs a 4 row with many more fins which one would you think would cool better in stop and go traffic? lol a lot of people get confused on this set up. The 2 row because the less restrictive it is. 4 rows of fins is pretty thick and when air at idle is not very much with a stock fan or a flex fan it doesn't make sense to restrict your air flow like that unless you have a big *** truck and a huge 20" fan! lol

Same thing with pusher fans, I had one on this last set up pushing air once the temps got to 200° just to aid in the air flow, did it help? a little but also caused a little restriction too by blocking a small amount of flow through the front of the radiator.

I just looked at the stock pulley that is on my 383 and it looks the same size.



" noted that there is approx. 3.75 inches of unused space side to side between the frame rails and radiator ends of my 73 RR clone so I am also considering a larger radiator although the opening through the radiator support is approx. 26 and 3/4"

If the radiator does not fit all the way around you can run gaskets to seal it up, just saying I have seen it done well it's not noticeable.

" have a 26" crossflow aluminum radiator with twin 10" puller fans, approx 2600 cfm total"

I would recommend you get duals or get a fan that gets you as much cfm as possible. I would have bought a 4000 cfm set up but didn't have the $500 to spend on it.

My dual 12" fans are super quiet, its amazing compared to the derale 14" pusher I was using, I can't hear them while driving at all, I have a 100 amp alt so even if they pull 45 amps when running I got it covered. I just ordered a CFM meter from ebay to double check the the flow rate.

Somethings to keep in mind with the Evan's waterless coolant - and trust me it is hard to not want to go back to water / inhibitor mix just because water is a better heat transfer and it does seem the Evan's runs 10-15° hotter which just makes you nutty sometimes but I try to remind myself of the benefits and how they outweigh the difference.

Benefits:
Reduces System Pressure, Prevents Overheating, Maximizes BHP - not sure about this last claim lol
Corrosive Properties: Unbeatable protection against corrosion and electrolysis
Life Span: Protects for life of the engine
http://www.evanscooling.com/products/high-performance-coolant/

The Evan's does not pressurize, the first time you get brave enough to pull the cap off when you know it's 200°+ and see there is not pop you will be amazed trust me lol so will all the people you prove it to.

The Evan's does not promote corrosion that can happen normally with iron motors, regular 50/50 mix or any combo of water and whatever will promote rust, and who in their right mind would want to put something in their motor that they know is rusting it out from the inside?? I mean how many of us are intentionally rusting the cylinder walls just so they can see 180° on their gauge? My motor is 30 over so I could go another 30 and want to keep it that way in 10-20 years from now, will a water filled motor be able to do that?

If you are running different types of metals in your water stream like aluminum heads, water pump, etc - the difference in metals using water cause a chemical reaction that accelerates corrosion. If you're all stock then you don't need or should use evans. But if not you don't want to make your engine rust faster do you? the inhibitors in all stuff out there only last 3-6 months and need to be replaced to be 100% effective. Do you change your antifreeze every 3-6 months? I never did.


"If the Evans coolant doesn't do the job completely, I thought maybe an oil cooler might help. What do you think?" I think an oil cooler is a great idea, as soon as I upgrade my steering box to a stage 3 firm fell or borgeson I am taking my oil cooler I am using now for power steering and using it for oil. or trans.


I will report back two more times one when I can get her out in higher outside temps 100 or over and again when its winter here, because of this new radiator and fan setup, I am also going to switch carbs for a minute to take her back to the Dyno

I'm not pushing this product at all just sharing my experience so if someone like yourself is considering Evan's you can at least see some insite on a similar set up. Good Luck!! you will be fine don't worry.

Thank you for the excellent thread. I am considering using Evans in my 440. I anxiously await the results from the last upgrade. I do have a couple questions though. You say you have a 440source water pump; is that the pulley made for it? I spoke with them and they told me that their pulley is an underdriven type; (flows less?) as it's made for race type applications; high revs. Second, I read somewhere years ago that running without a stat can actually cause an engine to run warmer as coolant flows through the radiator too fast to release all the heat. I might be suffering from senility, but that's what I recall. I intend to purchase and install the 440source pump but with my stock pulley so I move as much coolant as possible. In my case I have no heater box in the car so now would be the best time to flush it out and do the Evans thing. I have a 26" crossflow aluminum radiator with twin 10" puller fans, approx 2600 cfm total, not sure how many rows of tubes. I am trying to sell my house and move to Florida and I want to be able to drive my baby regardless of how hot it is down there. I noted that there is approx. 3.75 inches of unused space side to side between the frame rails and radiator ends of my 73 RR clone so I am also considering a larger radiator although the opening through the radiator support is approx. 26 and 3/4". I have a Derale dual fan controller but I spliced in manual overrides to head off the heat before it gets out of hand. I also spliced in a separate run light for each fan as I can't hear them running with the engine on with the headers and cherry bombs singing. Eventually I would like to put an A/C box back in it. I would also like to get a cool-view visible stat housing so I can see the coolant flow. If the Evans coolant doesn't do the job completely, I thought maybe an oil cooler might help. What do you think? I am still riveted to my seat hoping that your last upgrade works out well. Thanks again!

Stock pulley



I was able compare the two pulleys the 440source bilet one and the oem stock one and they are the same size.

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

Ok, I made a couple for videos, one showing how fast the cooling is once parked (in a hurry and did not drive around first just ran for a few minutes to get to 170° then shut it off). Second video is a CFM flow rate video, got my meter today and put it to work right away. actualy 2 CFM vids first one is short second is long both show that dual 12" fans advertised at 1400 CFM each actual exceed and do better than that. measured at each half and in the middle second vid measured the back side in a few different spots.

https://youtu.be/A6rgvYhtXnM


https://youtu.be/IHXP01v8JSo


https://youtu.be/jBamlNKtcXc

 

[multimopes]

I want thank you again for the excellent and on-going testing. I have more info for my setup. First, I never had checked my timing, it could be causing some issues, even though I don't hear any pinging. Second, when you say a 26" wide radiator, yours is verticle and mine being a cross flow. Because the tanks on each end are sideways, the actual fin tube area is reallyonly 22 1/2"; with the tanks included it's approx. 27" (fills the space between the support opening. It is also approx 18 1/2" tall. My fans are 10" and 12" would not fit. So it is definately smaller than yours (a true 26"). Another question I forgot to ask; (is your seal still in place at the rear cowl of the hood?) This would help to dissipate heat also. I have also removed the inner fender well access panels behind my shock towers on both sides hoping that would help keep the heat down. You can see the headers behind the front wheels when looking from the side. I have heat wrapped the tubes around the starter. I connected my cooling fans via spade connectors so I can switch which fan is lead at will by unplugging and switching the connections. Thanks for the description of the Evans coolant itself also, I wanted to know if it was a thicker viscosity. (when the outside temperature drops to about 5 degrees in winter, a tiny weepage from my head gaskets on both sides at #3 and #6 cylinders is evident and with thicker coolant may disappear. My heads, pump, neck, etc are all cast iron but I still want Evans for the rust protection and lower pressures. Thank you also for the excellent videos. By the way, my aluminum radiator is 2 rows of 1" tubes also, just smaller, obviously. My car was a race only car when I got it with one 12" electric fan(puller) with no shroud. I look forwardn to your next update.

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

Right now I am experimenting with timing, just bumped mine up from 15° initial to 18, all seemed good until 3000 rpm then some missing or what felt like missing happend plus when i got to 18 it didn't seem happy and I had to re adjust the a/f idle mix on my 4 corner 780. seemed to keep cooler a bit, going to take it back to 15° maybe 16 and leave it, then just mess around with the idle mixes and maybe carb jetting. all in all it seems timing does have a big effect even with Evan's.

Funny thing is this all got started because i took it out last Friday and it got to 220 on an 83° day which seemed real crazy, found out that the vac hose on the distributor had come off!

 

[multimopes]

Just one more question to ask. Can you use or what do you think of using the newer Mopar embittered coolant instead of Evans? It's supposed to be good for 5 years or 100,000 miles? Can it be used on a all cast iron 1968 motor and will it still corrode like the green stuff because it still is cut with water?
I do want to thank you again for the excellent saga and your attention to detail!

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

Honestly I have no experience withe the mopar stuff so I can't answer I will do some Reaser ch on it if you would like and see what I can find out?

 

[multimopes]

Honestly I have no experience withe the mopar stuff so I can't answer I will do some Reaser ch on it if you would like and see what I can find out?

Not necessary, I will look into it myself, but I appreciate the offer. I will be ordering a new larger 26" 2 core w/ 1"size tubes downflow radiator like the one you have instead of a crossflow. I never knew the rad measurement did not include the tanks, now I do. I will have to adapt my fans and see how it goes before I decide on Evans or something else. I am grateful for all your testing, research and help. Thanks again!