I think I broke it already

[Cornpatch MO]

Is it possible to pull the shifter boot off. And take a spin? I know I said bearing first but it almost sounds like something due to wind. It doesn't make sense about the being warm as far as that goes but to my old ears it sounds like wind noise possibly?? Good luck. Mike

Agreed about pulling shifter boot off. I suggested that earlier. The noise should be more pronounced. Take a rubber hose , one end in your ear, the other end through the shifter hole , pointed forward. Then try that with it poined to the rear...............................MO

 

[moparedtn]

If you're on a Road with no traffic, you will isolate drive train forward of trans gears. I did that way back & found a noise was vibration because of a broken trans mount

Well, I suppose I could. Not like I'm going to lose any power assist to anything.

Is it possible to pull the shifter boot off. And take a spin? I know I said bearing first but it almost sounds like something due to wind. It doesn't make sense about the being warm as far as that goes but to my old ears it sounds like wind noise possibly?? Good luck. Mike

Sure can on shift boot. No, doubtful on it being a wind thing - that would again be a gradual thing, I'd imagine, not an instant-on thing.
Thanks!

Agreed about pulling shifter boot off. I suggested that earlier. The noise should be more pronounced. Take a rubber hose , one end in your ear, the other end through the shifter hole , pointed forward. Then try that with it poined to the rear...............................MO

I guess I could get Epstein to ride shotgun for the rubber hose duty.
Ok, obscure Welcome Back Kotter reference, sorry.

Now for an UPDATE:
I've decided to drop the driveshaft again and take it to a driveline shop in Knoxville, where it will get a new yoke and u-joints. I'll also have them check it for true and for balance. It's one of those "one day" things I was going to do anyways and this seems appropriate to the issue now, so we'll get all that eliminated as a possibility in the process.

 

[JB400]

Quit breaking your toys or you won't get any new ones.

 

[khryslerkid]

That's one unique sound. I've never heard a sound like that coming from a drive train. It will be interesting to know what's doing it. I wonder if your driveshaft shop can check the splines in the yoke for wear? If not too expensive, go ahead and replace it.

You would think that as many times as you have taken it out on the road, it hasn't gotten worse.

Sounds like a bumblebee in a jar. I did hear a PCV valve make a sound like that once but that's a engine rpm specific. Good luck! You can do it!

 

[Cornpatch MO]

Well, I suppose I could. Not like I'm going to lose any power assist to anything.


Sure can on shift boot. No, doubtful on it being a wind thing - that would again be a gradual thing, I'd imagine, not an instant-on thing.
Thanks!


I guess I could get Epstein to ride shotgun for the rubber hose duty.
Ok, obscure Welcome Back Kotter reference, sorry.

Now for an UPDATE:
I've decided to drop the driveshaft again and take it to a driveline shop in Knoxville, where it will get a new yoke and u-joints. I'll also have them check it for true and for balance. It's one of those "one day" things I was going to do anyways and this seems appropriate to the issue now, so we'll get all that eliminated as a possibility in the process.

Yeah fer sure. Have Epstein stick the hose in your ear while you are driving. Then he can steer it while you move the hose around. Be sure to take video ! .....................8-) .....................MO

 

[moparedtn]

Quit breaking your toys or you won't get any new ones.

Uh....thanks?

That's one unique sound. I've never heard a sound like that coming from a drive train. It will be interesting to know what's doing it. I wonder if your driveshaft shop can check the splines in the yoke for wear? If not too expensive, go ahead and replace it.
You would think that as many times as you have taken it out on the road, it hasn't gotten worse.
Sounds like a bumblebee in a jar. I did hear a PCV valve make a sound like that once but that's a engine rpm specific. Good luck! You can do it!

It really is. Sounds like one of those old time sickly seat belt warning buzzers or something.
Yoke is definitely getting replaced regardless. That was on the "future improvements" list anyways since the bushing thing last fall; it's just been accelerated.
I don't know what I agitated with that little hard shift, but one thing's for sure - it's gonna get gone.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Sounds like a rear bearing is galled, IMO. Friend did hard thing on the way to work at Plymouth dealer. Pulled it apart nothing he really checked the rear bearing. Maybe the trans sat for a long time and a little condensation rusted a bearing.
Ed you've got that lighting cloud following you. Good luck fixing it.

 

[moparedtn]

Sounds like a rear bearing is galled, IMO. Friend did hard thing on the way to work at Plymouth dealer. Pulled it apart nothing he really checked the rear bearing. Maybe the trans sat for a long time and a little condensation rusted a bearing.
Ed you've got that lighting cloud following you. Good luck fixing it.

I'm starting to think that perhaps the input bushing being so difficult to get the tranny into when I put things together may have a "bearing" on
this issue and, like you surmise, may be putting a lateral force all the way through the tranny, where it is manifesting itself on the final drive bearing??
Yeah ok, just another theory, but I'm thinking if I pull the transmission, I'm going to take out the pilot input bushing and substitute one of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-PILO...467386?hash=item4b3a962bfa:g:qTsAAOSwo3pWdGjo
How do those stay in the back of the crank, anyways? Is it just an interference fit?

 

[Fran Blacker]

Ed don't remember from old thread, did you check the bell housing to see if you needed off set dowels?

 

[Fran Blacker]

I'm starting to think that perhaps the input bushing being so difficult to get the tranny into when I put things together may have a "bearing" on
this issue and, like you surmise, may be putting a lateral force all the way through the tranny, where it is manifesting itself on the final drive bearing??
Yeah ok, just another theory, but I'm thinking if I pull the transmission, I'm going to take out the pilot input bushing and substitute one of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-PILO...467386?hash=item4b3a962bfa:g:qTsAAOSwo3pWdGjo
How do those stay in the back of the crank, anyways? Is it just an interference fit?

If bell housing is miss aligned that bearing won't help and will crap out faster, JMO.

 

[moparedtn]

Ed don't remember from old thread, did you check the bell housing to see if you needed off set dowels?

Nope, everything bolted right up.

If bell housing is miss aligned that bearing won't help and will crap out faster, JMO.

That bearing eliminates the chance of the brass bushing galling, even though I won't do anything silly like lopping off the end of the input shaft.
I had a 440 4-speed car a few decades ago that the previous owner had done that to. It worked fine, but come clutch replacement time, we replaced the input shaft and things started working even better.

 

[coloradodave]

Ed, If you go that route (Mid 90s Dakota roller bearing) look here:
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=447751&cc=1087679&jsn=437
I bought mine from Rock Auto, but NAPA should carry them as well. Carefully tap into the crank recess with the flat end of a large socket against the bearing and a hammer. Putting it in the freezer for a while will help.

 

[moparedtn]

Ed, If you go that route (Mid 90s Dakota roller bearing) look here:
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=447751&cc=1087679&jsn=437
I bought mine from Rock Auto, but NAPA should carry them as well. Carefully tap into the crank recess with the flat end of a large socket against the bearing and a hammer. Putting it in the freezer for a while will help.

Thanks as always Dave! I just wish I knew that would "cure" things now, but next time the transmission is out (which could be damn soon if I don't figure this out), I'm going to install one of those anyways.

Man, I know SOMEBODY has heard this noise before. I hope they chime in saying "well yeah, dumbass, it's so-and-so".

 

[Fran Blacker]

Nope, everything bolted right up.


That bearing eliminates the chance of the brass bushing galling, even though I won't do anything silly like lopping off the end of the input shaft.
I had a 440 4-speed car a few decades ago that the previous owner had done that to. It worked fine, but come clutch replacement time, we replaced the input shaft and things started working even better.

Geez Ed your removing the clutch and to check it with a dial indicator takes five minutes why not? If you have access to one. My thought is if you had trouble getting trans in the bell housing maybe isn't centered. It has to deflect the input shaft to get it in. If you find front bearing or needle bearing that are in the back of input are bad then I'd really look at bell housing. JMHO.

 

[moparedtn]

Geez Ed your removing the clutch and to check it with a dial indicator takes five minutes why not? If you have access to one. My thought is if you had trouble getting trans in the bell housing maybe isn't centered. It has to deflect the input shaft to get it in. If you find front bearing or needle bearing that are in the back of input are bad then I'd really look at bell housing. JMHO.

Because I don't have any of that and wouldn't know how (or even if) to do such things. Never done such in my life - and nobody even mentioned that back when I was doing the swap, which you know I documented on the fly here as I did it.

You're quite the hindsight 20/20 fella, aren't ya?
It'll take a bit more than 5 minutes now, ya reckon?

 

[Fran Blacker]

30 mins If you can borrow an dial indicator like this mounted on a magnetic base. Check in service manual in clutches to see how it's set up.

 

[Daves69]

Like Fran say's it's a good idea to indicate the bell. If your going to the roller pilot I'd think you'd want the input closer to center to roll as true as possible and reduce wear on the input. The smaller indicator is easiest to work with. The larger size can be a bit trying but can be used. There is also a spec for crank flange face to housing face. Bell must be torqued to spec.
Definitely more than 5 minutes, but even if it's already in acceptable tolerance you'll know what you have.
This is covered in the SMs. Setup example picture from the MP book........

 

[moparedtn]

30 mins If you can borrow an dial indicator like this mounted on a magnetic base. Check in service manual in clutches to see how it's set up.
View attachment 577109

Y'all surely are helpful with all this and I will check all that out next time the car is apart. It isn't now.

My point was (is) that the car is assembled now and would need disassembled. Not a quick thing to do without a lift.
Surely you remember me rolling around on the concrete floor with that #^%$^% heavy transmission on my chest?
I can't get the car high enough in the air to allow the trans jack I have (Harbor Freight) to clear the car with the transmission on it
so I have to be the default trans jack - and it hurt me last time. Not supposed to be doing that sort of thing anymore since
all the surgeries.

Besides, right now I'm after a specific noise emanating from a different part of the car and it isn't engine speed sensitive at all.
Gotta lead a logical fella to believe it's got nothing to do with engine/clutch area then, right?

 

[Fran Blacker]

Y'all surely are helpful with all this and I will check all that out next time the car is apart. It isn't now.

My point was (is) that the car is assembled now and would need disassembled. Not a quick thing to do without a lift.
Surely you remember me rolling around on the concrete floor with that #^%$^% heavy transmission on my chest?
I can't get the car high enough in the air to allow the trans jack I have (Harbor Freight) to clear the car with the transmission on it
so I have to be the default trans jack - and it hurt me last time. Not supposed to be doing that sort of thing anymore since
all the surgeries.

Besides, right now I'm after a specific noise emanating from a different part of the car and it isn't engine speed sensitive at all.
Gotta lead a logical fella to believe it's got nothing to do with engine/clutch area then, right?

Ed hope it an easier fix than pulling the tranny.

 

[moparedtn]

Ed hope it an easier fix than pulling the tranny.

Exactly, yessir.
A fella over on the Moparts board got me thinking of something else to try, futile as it might be.
I can take the speedo pinion totally out, block off the hole in the adapter case and try that just to totally rule out something
climbing in that gear drive, because I swear that's exactly what this sounds like.
I know the speedo pinion looked perfect when I took it out before and I know the speedometer works as nice as any I've ever
had, but.....
that is what the sound sounds like.
Eh, what's the harm in trying?